Helmets

What your instructor never taught you. Continuing your education and learning from others. Climbing safety topics and accident/incident discussions.
brolloks
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Post by brolloks » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:53 pm

thank God for you, 1D!

this thread was interresting, then doofus messed it up, then you made it lighter again.

my attitude sometimes might be what's wrong with this country, but i would like to say just one more thing: does anybody know the name of doofus? because i think its becoming reeeeally necessary to let all suppliers of climbing gear know who he is so that they'll stop supplying gear to him... the sooner he's gone, the better...

:oops:

now i feel bad... darnit drifter, you bring out the worst in me! its just that you don't enhance the climbing community with your worthless ranting...
you have one mouth, two ears. listen more...

Andre
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Post by Andre » Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:54 pm

I must admit I don't quite see why everyones attacking Drifter, I think he made a valid point.

I started out climbing with Tekkies because of financial reasons and my friends that come along with me for the first time either climb barefoot or with normal shoes. It would be stupid of them to buy shoes without even knowing if they are going to go on climbing

I bought a climbing helmet because at that time I had the finances for it.
All of us are not that fortunate and using another helmet whilst saving for a climbing helmet makes the best sense.

Trying to compare this with climbing with a nylon or other rope is just plain silly.

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Rastaman
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Location: Cape Town

Post by Rastaman » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:29 pm

I filled up with petrol today. Cost R620 bucks :(
A climbing helmet for R500 bucks is cheap.

The problem with using a industrial helmet as a temporary measure is that you will end up using it all the time. Rather save up for a bit longer and buy the real deal.
Catch a lift with someone on your next climbing trip, the bucks you'll save on petrol will buy 2 helmets :D

People go to sea in unseaworthy boats and climbers climb without helmets. Its crazy. As a kid I never wore a cyclling helmet and I rode to school and back every day.
These days every cyclist that I see wears a helmet. Its become a standard part of the gear.

I hope that the same thing happens with climbing.

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waynarky
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Post by waynarky » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:25 am

I was climbing without one for yonks and only got my helmet for the RLMC last year, but I do feel that tad bit safer with it.

Admittedly I don't use it on most single pitch sport routes, but I probably should.

I use mine for Wakeboarding too, (not ideal i know) and its definately helped my confidence. I can hit the rails or kicker without kakking about hitting my noggin.

head injuries suck - wear a helmet :D
Waynarky
http://www.extremelysa.co.za
Adventure Sports Directory and Mobile Climbing Wall.

st0ne
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Post by st0ne » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:05 pm

I find Drifter to be argumentative and opinionated, often without any facts, knowledge or reasoning. It's people like this on forums who eventually will chase other contributors away as really, what is the point of making an educated comment, as I had earlier done, only to have an uneducated fool like Drifter posting his 2 cents worth, where every line is a disclaimer about the fact that he \"doesnt know\" and he'll \"need to see the proof\" etc. I for one am not going to post any further on this forum because guys like Drifter just ruin the flow of a forum, and infuriate those who would like to post educated questions and answers. I just thought I'd post now to stand by what Brollocks said earlier.

ClimbZA, you have a policy of deleting worthless posts. Why are you continuing to allow this person to spoil conversations here on the forum? I for one am done with it. I tried to contribute, but I just cannot tolerate this fool for a second longer.

I would quickly like to say that I agree with Rastaman. Helmets should be standard. I would really like to see if this years Rock Rally has a compulsory helmets rule, especially after Marianne's huge accident last year, where, had she not been wearing a proper helmet, she might have been killed.
I know that with other sports, like MTB, one cannot even ride at ANY parks or courses without a helmet. The policy is \"No Helmet, No Ride\". The same should be applied to all places where access can be controlled. We need to seriously look at protecting our noggins!

Happy climbing to all!!

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justin
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Post by justin » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:34 pm

Yip, we agree that Drifters posts can sometimes be irritating and a bit childish by nature. But, often Drifter raises a point and acts as a catalyst for a good debate.

WRT to deleting worthless posts, we prefer to leave all posts pertaining to climbing related topics and let the reader determine things for themselves (in the same way that people can choose to wear a helmet or not).

Just to give you an idea of posts that we have deleted:
2 x 8a_climber
6 x guest
6 x drifter
and a few others!

NB: A bigger problem for certain contributors to this website was a couple of really nasty Private Messages that went out by a certain person.
See the thread Abuse on ClimbZA

Anyway, it will be interesting to see if climbing goes the same way as MTB'ing where the policy is 'No helmet, No Climb'. It makes sense that helmets should be compulsory for Rock Rallies and other outdoor comps… shall we start a new thread?

For those who don't know or have forgotten, here is a pic of Marianne's helmet after she took a fall:
Image
Last edited by justin on Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Climb ZA - Administrator
justin@climbing.co.za

neadek
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Post by neadek » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:55 am

If I could just add one thing to this debat.

I work for a school In Franschhoek. I because of my love for climbing an involved in a climbing group. Basically I introduce them to climbing, safety, how to etc. one thing I have never thought of(a bad thing I now realize) is using a helmet. Partly because I was not introduced to climbing with a helmet as standard safety gear. So in turn I've never passed that on to the kids. In essance I'm teaching kids to climb and ignore this vital piece of saftey gear.

I've since joined mountain rescue and part of our standard gear is a helmet. No helmet no participation in rescue. simple.

The debat in my head is now, do I stop the kids from climbing without a helmet, meaning that until we can get funding to by at least 2 helmets they wont be doing anything but bouldering.

I think that this debat will go on and on till some falls and dies not wearing a helmet. Please let that not be the case.

st0ne
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Post by st0ne » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:39 pm

do I stop the kids from climbing without a helmet, meaning that until we can get funding to by at least 2 helmets they wont be doing anything but bouldering
Not at all neadek, according to Drifter, anything that will fit on the kids' heads will do. Get each child to save an ice-cream tub from home, have each child attach an elastic to the tub to hold it in place and viola! Think about it, an ice-cream tub fits on your head, it's made of plastic, so it MUST be the same as a purpose designed climbing helmet...plus, in the long run, it will save you all heaps. I'll even donate some Petzl stickers to the children so they can have helmets that also look branded like the 'proper' climbers. :roll:

Neadek, please get those children climbing with helmets, and not just two. The climber needs one, and the belayer needs one. Have a meeting with the school's principal and explain the need for protection for the kids, plus the possible liability that you will face for not properly protecting the children in the event that an accident does occur.

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Nic Le Maitre
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Post by Nic Le Maitre » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:19 pm

Basically what it all boils down to is: How much do you value your life? Would you rather have a (more expensive) purpose designed helmet which can save your life. And believe me, they do work, I know at least two people who are alive today thanks to their climbing helmets.

Or would you rather save ~R250 and buy a helmet which may or may not work?

I pick the expensive helmet and spend less on food for a month.

My 2 cents

Nic

neadek
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Post by neadek » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:28 pm

Well I wont need to stop the kids climbing. Thanks to some very generous folks over at eiger equipement we will be receiving to Elios helmets.

Safety first for my climbers.

Thanks guys for the donation and keeping there learning gear safe.

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waynarky
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Post by waynarky » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:38 pm

on a similar note; do you think I should get the public to wear helmets when climbing the mobile wall?
Waynarky
http://www.extremelysa.co.za
Adventure Sports Directory and Mobile Climbing Wall.

Marshall
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Post by Marshall » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:05 pm

Wearing a helmet would be considered a reasonable safety precaution. Your customers would be considered novices unless you could prove their competence. Novices are not competent to assess the risks for themselves. Thus the onus/resposibility would fall to you the expert. It an accident were to happen & the person injured was not wearing reasonable safety equipment, you would not have a leg to stand on. Forget about indemnity & insurance if reasonable safety precautions are not taken.

Or move all your assets into your wife or moms name. Become a man of straw.

Plus, non climbers enjoy colourful stuff, equipment. Adds to the experiance.

neadek
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Post by neadek » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:21 pm

Yes without a dought they should. As should any climber climbing in front of public. Its those climbers that the public see and the follow when starting to climb. I'm quite suprised that the climbing gyms don't have it as a rule that climbing with a helmet is compulsery. They have some funny rules about us climbing without shirts though.

brolloks
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Post by brolloks » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:34 pm

yes to waynarky. what happened to the frog, bro? no helmet? :cry:

to neadek: the rule to keep your shirt on probably saves us the embarrassment of looking at your hairy torso... but my apologies if you are a woman...
you have one mouth, two ears. listen more...

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The Jimmy
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Post by The Jimmy » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:44 pm

Can I just ask: why the sudden outcry for everyone to wear helmets? Did a whole bunch of people get hit in the head by falling rocks recently? (Mind you, looking at some of the posts here I think I'd say at least one or two did...maybe several times)

Anyway, c'mon get real. This is an interesting though very drawn out debate but really I just don't see everyone running to the shops suddenly to buy helmets. Use your noggin - areas that don't see al lot of traffic, like many trad crags, are likely to have loose rock and you'll be stupid not to wear a helmet. But if you're going somewhere like Legoland for the weekend then forking out R500 bucks for a helmet doesn't make sense.

For interests sake, what percentage of climbing injuries (from falling climbers or falling rocks) are head related and what percentages are related to fingers, elbows, shoulders and especially legs and ankles?

Marshall
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Post by Marshall » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:18 pm

In 2001; on Andy de Klerk's route(21), Route Number One, bolted in 1994, at the Far Side. Possibly one of the oldest & most climbed routes in Montagu. A large(1.5kg) well chalked hold broke off & skimed my belayers temple. So much for well climbed routes.

Have you ever looked at the loose stuff above Legoland or seen baboons rolling rocks from the top of Legoland? Then forking out R500 bucks for a helmet begins to make sense.

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The Jimmy
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Post by The Jimmy » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:29 am

No look in principle i agree with wearing a helmet. It's ALWAYS safer than not wearing one. It's also always safer to go out of your house in the morning wearing a bulletproof vest and body armour, but given the likelyhood that something will actually happen to warrent those items, they're just not neccessary. If you're going somewhere where there is a strong chance that you need special protection equipment, then you should kit up.

That said your incident on route nr 1 was a very isolated one, but could no doubt have ended a lot more serious, isolated or not. We've had one pretty damn close shave as well if you'll remember that little incident in Momentum Gorge about a year and a half ago.

So actually I am arguing for both sides and I really have no point.
My biggest issue is that I just don't feel and look cool wearing a helmet to the sport crags. 8)

Cheers!

neadek
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Post by neadek » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:42 am

So the jimmy, if you don't feel or look cool in a harnes will you not climb a sport route with one. Yes a helmet might not be needed to get up and down a route, but if you take a fall and end up crashing into the rock with your head will you feel and look cool as a vegie...

I never have climbed a sport route with a helmet, simply coz I've never had one. I've only ever had one climber climb with a helmet with me at a sport route. So my general thinking has been that sport climbers dont use helmets.

In general I've learn't that climbing is one of those sports that the guys involved have increadible standards of safty, double check this and that etc. But why don't more of us use a helmet.?

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