Joining unequal ropes for abseiling

Techniques for all kinds of climbing, Learn new moves. Share your training secrets, find out how other people are getting strong, and get motivated!
Post Reply
PeterHS
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:50 am
Real Name: Peter Hedley-Smith
Location: Cape Town

Joining unequal ropes for abseiling

Post by PeterHS » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:28 am

What's safe and what's unsafe for joining unequal ropes for abseiling? Peter

hendriks
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 10:29 pm

Re: Joining unequal ropes for abseiling

Post by hendriks » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:55 am

The edk (flat overhand) should be fine for different diameter ropes but if you want to be very safe use a double fishermans. If using the edk, dress it properly to ensure good contact between both ropes throughout the knot.

Another nifty way of joining two unequal diameter ropes would be a sheet bend with the end of the rope tied of in stopper knots (overhand on a bight/fishermans)
Image
The sheet bend only works if under tension and can undo itself when unloaded, hence the need to tie of the ends if using it to join abseil ropes. This knot can potentialy snag as well so take care. This is also a very useful knot to join ropes where you will put a large load on it and need to untie it afterwards.

SNORT
Posts: 1174
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:53 am
Real Name: Charles Edelstein
Location: Cape Town

Re: Joining unequal ropes for abseiling

Post by SNORT » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:54 pm

European death knot.

SNORT
Posts: 1174
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:53 am
Real Name: Charles Edelstein
Location: Cape Town

Re: Joining unequal ropes for abseiling

Post by SNORT » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:08 pm

A couple of points that are life saving.

DO NOT make your tails too long. Max 15cm. Do not put additional knots on the European death knot. KISS! Keep it simple stupid.

Was involved in 2 situations on Sunday where I put my rappel device on a too long tail and then the rope twisted around additional knots.

A well dressed simple so called death knot with short tails is safe. Period
European death knot correct.jpg
European death knot correct.jpg (7.58 KiB) Viewed 1256 times
European death knot correct.jpg
European death knot correct.jpg (7.58 KiB) Viewed 1256 times
Attachments
European death knot wrong.jpg
European death knot wrong.jpg (8.28 KiB) Viewed 1256 times
European death knot wrong not tight enough.jpg
European death knot wrong not tight enough.jpg (8.04 KiB) Viewed 1256 times

Old Smelly
Posts: 651
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:21 pm

Re: Joining unequal ropes for abseiling

Post by Old Smelly » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:08 am

Interesting different viewpoints:

Climbing
http://www.climbing.com/skills/in-defen ... eath-knot/

Rock and Ice
http://www.rockandice.com/climbing-gear ... ectType=35

It would appear, Nic, that others can disagree about technical stuff too!
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

hendriks
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 10:29 pm

Re: Joining unequal ropes for abseiling

Post by hendriks » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:14 am

Old Smelly wrote:Interesting different viewpoints:

Climbing
http://www.climbing.com/skills/in-defen ... eath-knot/

Rock and Ice
http://www.rockandice.com/climbing-gear ... ectType=35

It would appear, Nic, that others can disagree about technical stuff too!
You are kidding right. The Climbing.com article is spot on about the edk issue. The Rock and Ice on is based on guesswork/myth/BS. We know for a fact that the knot killing people is the flat 8 and not the EDK. Enough pull tests has been done to confirm this. Seriously consider actually understanding the articles you share before putting your foot in it. :lol:

hendriks
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 10:29 pm

Re: Joining unequal ropes for abseiling

Post by hendriks » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:15 am

SNORT wrote:European death knot.
Ja I went for the know many ways to skin a cat method but in the end you are right. KISS.

The simplest solution is the way to go :hapban

hendriks
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 10:29 pm

Re: Joining unequal ropes for abseiling

Post by hendriks » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:17 am

hendriks wrote:
Old Smelly wrote:Interesting different viewpoints:

Climbing
http://www.climbing.com/skills/in-defen ... eath-knot/

Rock and Ice
http://www.rockandice.com/climbing-gear ... ectType=35

It would appear, Nic, that others can disagree about technical stuff too!
You are kidding right. The Climbing.com article is spot on about the edk issue. The Rock and Ice on is based on guesswork/myth/BS. We know for a fact that the knot killing people is the flat 8 and not the EDK. Enough pull tests has been done to confirm this. Seriously consider actually understanding the articles you share before putting your foot in it. :lol:
Ag ffs, caught me at a k*k moment. Didn't mean to insult you (insert diplomatic bs here). I see you didn't actually advocate either :thumright

Old Smelly
Posts: 651
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:21 pm

Re: Joining unequal ropes for abseiling

Post by Old Smelly » Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:03 pm

How could I possibly be insulted when someone BERATES me for raising the fact that two well respected publications have published viewpoints on the use of the EDK and suggests that I didn't read the articles properly...

seems that even raising different viewpoints is not allowed...

I suspect that there wasn't a satisfactory answer as to how to join different diameter ropes though...neither of the proposed solutions seem optimal (in my viewpoint) - rethread figure 8 or EDK...

Any better ideas...
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

Post Reply