This is how we want to represent women climbers?

General climbing discussions. Climbing, Bouldering, Mountaineering. Anything!!
**Keep the arguments to the suject, not the members!
Millejoh
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:45 am
Real Name: Johnnie miller

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Millejoh » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:05 am

Thanks Nads for finally giving us a response from the "bunnies"....

gonads
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:13 pm
Real Name: Nadine

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby gonads » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:53 am

Zoe, agreed...

" The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion"

The question I am pondering:

Are we free by not allowing ourselves to be defined (i.e. boxed) or are we free by revolting against what we believe is imposed upon us by society (in so doing defining/boxing ourselves again) ?

.... Likely a bit of both. There is no black and white, but a personal choice we have to make.

Let's hope the ultimate message (from RC and its affiliates) sticks: Girls are having fun whilst rock climbing! (it is that simple)

Delaney
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:36 pm
Real Name: Delaney Carpenter

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Delaney » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:36 pm

I'd like to thank everyone who participated in this discussion; there have been a number of opinions and suggestions which I will most definitely be considering.

Even though I did let Anna know that I could not meet with her in April due to my schedule (Rogz, MCSA, WCC and the Montagu Rock Rally), I did offer to meet with her in May and we have not gotten around to scheduling a date. Needless to say, this forum has served it's purpose.

Who knew that taking some funny bunny pictures for Easter would cause such a fuss?

Those who have been following Rock Chicks since its beginning can attest to there being far more articles on women climbers' achievements in the South African climbing world (and abroad if anyone caught the three articles on Rannveig Aamodt in February) than on festive photo shoots such as the Christmas Special and this Bunny Shoot. As per Gosia's initial comment, I am trying to cater for all women climbers: the hardcore and unshaven to the girly types who like pink; and maintain a balance between the two. For my site to be attacked on the basis of an article that has attributed to approximately 2% of my current website content is a little irritating. Needless to say, the forum has proved useful to me.

Rock Chicks is not sponsored by anyone. I pay for the running of the site out of my own pocket. All planning of articles is by my doing. I have no assistants whatsoever. Maybe one day that will change.

As I explained to Anna in my email to her before she posted her comments on Climb ZA, women's rights to me mean that we can do whatever we want. We don't need to conform to anyone's ideas or opinions. If we want to dress up and be silly, we can. This was just a fun thing to do for Easter. It had absolutely nothing to do with Scope Magazine or making us out to be just about the eyelashes and pouts. Why can't we climb hard and be silly and fun, too?

Funny how we get judged, no matter what we do.

While Zoe's comments regarding the Rock Chicks Calendar can prove valid, what was not widely known was that the photos for the 2013 Rock Chicks calendar were taken with Getaway's audience in mind more than the climbing community in South Africa. Some of these calendars were distributed with Getaway's December issue based on the agreement that we would try to focus more on the aesthetic and scenic appeal of the photos than the actual climbing in order to cater for the outdoor crowd in general.

Suggestions for future articles on the Rock Chicks site are always welcome. My email address is on the site itself if you don't already have it. Rock Chicks is, after all, a women's climbing community and I am very happy to investigate all suggested ideas for growing this community.

I am a women who loves rock climbing for the problem-solving, the physical fight and the amazing places I find myself in when going climbing. I also do bellydancing and love glitter and sequins and being delicate and feminine (despite my enormous, muscular arms; heehee). I do not believe that it is a male-dominated society or any other kind of society that has created my likes and dislikes - it is my personality. I will never relinquish my own power by giving credit to an entity created by someone or something else. I am my own destiny and my own person and society has very little to do with the person I am today - my friends can attest to that. And this is what I am trying to portray through Rock Chicks. Be who you are and don't allow anything - not even rock climbing - to define you.

What I love about being a woman is that I am not a man.

Thank you again for all the contributions to this debate. I really appreciate the time and interest that has gone into this and will endeavour to improve my site as needed.

Delaney

Paul Goddard
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:55 pm

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Paul Goddard » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:00 pm

Delaney, I salute you. I think what you do for rock climbing is incredible. Please keep it up and please keep your sense of humor, despite the people who cannot see it for what it is.
Thank you

User avatar
Faffy001
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:24 pm
Real Name: JuliHeps
Location: South Africa, Garden Route

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Faffy001 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:22 pm

Thanks Delaney!

:cyclops: :alien: :afro: :jocolor: :mrgreen: :pirat: :pig: :wink:

User avatar
gregkriel
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 9:16 am
Real Name: Greg Kriel

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby gregkriel » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:17 pm

Delaney I salute you :salut: To all the rock chicks :thumright :thumleft: :)

A little something to lighten the mood :oops: Just for you Anna :jocolor:

Rock Bunny No #7

My costume for the next rock rally :) A bit dissapointed I wasnt included in the Rock Bunnies special :cry:

:mrgreen: :albino:
Attachments
2013-04-20-10.27.43.jpg
Rock Bunny No#7
2013-04-20-10.27.43.jpg (244.29 KiB) Viewed 2213 times
Last edited by gregkriel on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
"an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

User avatar
Gustav
Posts: 563
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:49 pm
Location: Waterval Boven

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Gustav » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:04 pm

"Like me, you could...be unfortunate enough to stumble upon a silent war.
The trouble is that once you see it, you can't unsee it. And once you've
seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as
speaking out. Either way, you're accountable." - Arundhati Roy
Gustav
Roc 'n Rope Adventures
Waterval Boven
013 257 0363
climb @t rocrope dot com

User avatar
tygereye
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 7:34 am
Real Name: Brenda Marx
Location: Stellenbosch

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby tygereye » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:05 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

@Greg, you just made my day!

@ThoseWhoWantToOrNotWantToBeBoxed: "The most important thing in life is to be yourself, unless you can be Batman; always be Batman."

Image
Last edited by tygereye on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Thermophage
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:03 am
Real Name: Cuan Lohrentz
Location: Cape Town

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Thermophage » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:15 am

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Greg...those are soooooo bad :|

User avatar
lelikegogga
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:07 pm
Real Name: phlip olivier
Location: somerset-west

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby lelikegogga » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:24 am

Always be Batman!!

Chris F
Posts: 623
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:45 pm
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Chris F » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:37 am

Ewwwwwww. Anyone know how you can permanently erase an image from your memory? I'm thinking of drilling into my skull and stabbing around a bit with a hot soldering iron. Worth a shot.

User avatar
gregkriel
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 9:16 am
Real Name: Greg Kriel

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby gregkriel » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:47 am

:jocolor: Hahaha come boys :) you know you like it... :lol:
"an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

User avatar
Thermophage
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:03 am
Real Name: Cuan Lohrentz
Location: Cape Town

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Thermophage » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:49 am

That which is seen cannot be unseen :pukel:

User avatar
gregkriel
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 9:16 am
Real Name: Greg Kriel

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby gregkriel » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:57 am

:thumleft:
Last edited by gregkriel on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
"an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

User avatar
Faffy001
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:24 pm
Real Name: JuliHeps
Location: South Africa, Garden Route

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Faffy001 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:59 am

aaawwwww now look what you boys did...we lost our bunny boy pics :(

:wink:

User avatar
Thermophage
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:03 am
Real Name: Cuan Lohrentz
Location: Cape Town

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Thermophage » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:00 am

Juli I know you have them in your "secret pics of Greg" folder on the laptop ;)

User avatar
Faffy001
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:24 pm
Real Name: JuliHeps
Location: South Africa, Garden Route

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Faffy001 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:10 am

please, I don't need pics...they my bunny ears... :o

:p

User avatar
gregkriel
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 9:16 am
Real Name: Greg Kriel

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby gregkriel » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:18 am

Ok OK its back :lol: :oops: :cheers: :joker: :batman:
"an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

User avatar
Forket
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:34 pm
Real Name: Everyday Troll

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Forket » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:36 am

Most respect i would ever give anybody on the forum, gregkriel ur a legend :afro:


eT

Delaney
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:36 pm
Real Name: Delaney Carpenter

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Delaney » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:12 pm

Love the way you did a two-for-one special there, Greg! A Rock Bunny and Rock Angel combo ... love it!

micky
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:03 am
Location: Cape Town

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby micky » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:16 pm

I agree with Anna, Zoe, Laura and others. Unfortunately the gender bias is so ingrained in society that most men are blind to it. Most guys tend to immediately revert to the stop whining, we're all equal, you're jealous arguments which just emphasise a lack of understanding. And I guess its hard to see unless its you who is dealing with it. Yet if you stop for a second and look around you'll notice that we are still very much a patriarchal system far from being equal. Its even a part of our language where most insults refer to something female. So yeah if someone raises a concern that a website helps perpetuate this stereotype then i think discussion is useful. However as with most threads on this forum things quickly degenerate to slander, abuse and general small minded drivel. Anyway this is probably as useful as trying to explain the importance of free speech to the ANC

GBM
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 8:03 pm
Real Name: Grant Marinus
Location: Cape Town

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby GBM » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:35 pm

The problems with your thesis are that the concerns raised in the first article in this thread were clearly ill founded and ill conceived - if regard is had to the actual content of the material concerned. If it’s the intention to invite constructive debate then perhaps the author should have based her concerns on a legitimate grievance as opposed to making outlandish remarks and drawing conclusions which did not fit the context. An article about the stereotyping of woman in climbing would have probably been received a lot better then the poorly concluded perception that the images taken in this instance somehow suggested one thing and one thing only. Poorly conceived allegations and conclusions, irrespective as to the overall importance or relevance of any particular issue, don’t help any cause.

Its interesting that you refer to free speech – don’t you think that its reasonable and acceptable for someone to respond (and exercise their right to free speech) to a complaint or allegation which is without merit in terms …. The words “slander, abuse and small minded drivel” may well be considered by some to be more fitting of the first article in this instance then any of the responses you contend fit that title.

David Vallet
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby David Vallet » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:50 am

I say that the article in the first instance, drew conclusions from a context, as percieved by the author.
Thus, spurning a point of view not previously conceived by those responsible for the content of her grievences.
and in so doing, created the catalyst for this debate.
If it were not for her punctuated, emotionally charged article, many may not have cared.

andrew p
Posts: 344
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:38 pm

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby andrew p » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:15 am

please all go take a deep breath, enjoy things for what they are! Anyways, its Friday, you will be climbing tomorrow!

Chris F
Posts: 623
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:45 pm
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Chris F » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:58 am

Notwithstanding the aforementioned, my honourable forum colleague above is speaking altruistically.

And anyone who thinks otherwise is a dick. Sorry a pussy. No not that either.

I'll get me coat. :wink:

immortality
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:09 pm
Real Name: Immo Bartens

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby immortality » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:06 pm

I sincerely hope there were hand cuffs and a Desert Eagle 5.0 involved for that photo shoot Greg!

k4t
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:30 pm
Real Name: Katharina

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby k4t » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:42 pm

I had initially decided that I was not going to comment on this thread because I am a busy professional; my time is precious and preferably spent on activities like loving live, climbing and spending time with people who constantly teach me life. In other words, commenting on a provocative statement containing little but opinion and personal interpretation is not on my list of priorities.

However, I feel that it is my obligation to commend Delaney for the incredible commitment, initiative and dedication she brings to the local climbing community.
Until any of us have put as much effort and time into promoting the sport of climbing, and encouraging people (especially women), to continue to climb when they have just started by offering our own precious time to make them a part of the community - none of us should not be pointing fingers at Delaney… but this is another matter.

Getting back to the debate I would like to say:
Generally speaking I have no problem with public debates, such as this one; nor do I have a problem with others challenging media trends or socially engrained thought patterns, provided the debate is based on facts and is void of personal emotion.I do however, reserve the right to form my own opinions and/or ignore people who cannot seem to raise an issue and continue a discussion, in a respectful and logic manner – resultantly, I could not take this debate seriously from day one.

I, just like my fellow bunny Nadine, consider Anna’s ‘fuckable’ comment to have been rather inappropriate. This sort of provocation in an opening statement of a debate is a clear fallacy (argumentum ad hominem) and shows an inability to keep the discussion neutral. From my experience discussions based on such statements become ugly and have no productive outcome whatsoever.

For the record, I work in a highly male dominated industry where I often find myself to be the only woman in a room-/convention-/jobsite full of men – and I have never had the experience that I am objectified because I shave my legs, do my hair and wear heels & perfume. On the contrary - I am respected for what I do and who I choose to be in the world, because I worked incredibly hard to get there. I feel the same respect from my male peers in the climbing community.

This absurd discussion makes a mountain out of a molehill and this comment marks the end of the dialog from my side.

Let's go climbing! Hopefully see you all out there! :thumright

Marshall1
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:38 am
Real Name: Derek Marshall
Location: Port Elizabeth

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Marshall1 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:39 am

.
Last edited by Marshall1 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Justin
Posts: 3208
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:31 am
Real Name: Justin Lawson
Location: Montagu
Contact:

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby Justin » Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:20 pm

Here is the gallery :arrow: 2013 Rock Bunnies
Climb ZA - Administrator
justin@climbing.co.za

gonads
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:13 pm
Real Name: Nadine

Re: This is how we want to represent women climbers?

Postby gonads » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:51 pm

Objectifying more 'wo-man'
http://www.rock-chicks.co.za/


Social Media

     

Return to “General Postings”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest