Two seconds on a half rope each....

[Larry Thomas]

When Trad climbing with a group of three people, using two half ropes, each second coming up on a half rope.

What is the consensus about this practice?

I know it happens, but is it the correct thing to do?

[Hann]

Second on 1 x Half Rope is fine and standard practice.
Leader however is always on 2 x half rope.
So if 2 people in a party of 3 want to lead, you'll have to untie the rope from the previous leader and tie to the next leader.

Second on 1 x double rope (marked with two interlocking circles like this ∞ ) is unacceptable.
You are unlikely to climb on double ropes in South Africa, but check when climbing on unfamiliar ropes.

Food for thought:
It is good if all climbers in a multipitch trad party have a basic understanding of, and carry the basic gear, to prussic/jummar/jug.

[Larry Thomas]

Thanks for the reply Hann.

I definitely had my definitions wrong, I thought the infinity symbol was for a twin rope and that a half and a double rope were the same thing.

[Hann]

Uhm, good point.

To clarify:

Half rope:
Symbol " 1/2 ".
Climb 2 ropes on leader, but can climb 1 rope on second
Clip 1 rope per biner/pro (Yes yes, I know the debate, but this is the standard)

Twin rope (I sometimes call it double, but Twin is the correct term)
Symbol: Infinity " ∞ " Leader and second on both ropes.
Clip both ropes simultaniously into a single biner. No debate.

[Mark]

For interest sake - when do you use which rope? what is the deciding factor? Thanks

[Hann]

Sport rope.
- Single Dynamic.
Most common rope in RSA
Usually for sport climbs.
Can be used for trad climbs as a single rope. Usually by Americans or if the gear is in a reasonably straight line.
You can also carry 2 x sport rope and use as per half rope. It is simply a weight and bulk issue.

Half Ropes.
Dominant in RSA for trad.
Most trad lines have scattered gear, so you'll need 2 ropes to keep them in a straight line.
Many trad decent have long raps, so you'll probably need 2 ropes.

Twin ropes.
I have no experience with twins.
In theory I understand they are generally used for ice.
Very thin, and the idea is to have 2 ropes for redundancy issues and rope drag.
They also have a positive effect on weight while still giving you long rap ability.

Anybody with experience care to comment?

[Wayne73]

Hi Hann

Seeing as you are giving out free advice. Would it be acceptable to climb trad on one single and one half rope. Using the single as a half rope for the purposes of reducing rope drag etc. As the ropes will be of differrent diametre could you still use a double overhand to connect for absailing?

[Hann]

Ooh, sounds like a test.....

Not advice, but personal experience:
A couple of years ago I climbed with a 8.5 half and 10.2 single.
I was very poor.

Climbing:
It worked fine for climbing.

Joining:
I used a reef knot with single fisherman's as stopknots to join. (I still do this, even with half ropes of the same diameter....creature of habit I guess)
I suppose you can forgo the reef knot and use only a double fisherman.
Not sure about the double fisherman, nor about using an overhand. I can't see an obvious issue for either though.
Do you have any info on this?

Rapping:
Was not ideal. I found the ropes twisted....but it worked.

[Wayne73]

Thanks

Also having a bout of the poor just at the moment. The reef knot with the fishermans has always seemed to like a more substantial knot, but according to some study I read the double overhand was the (only) way to go. Don't know if differrent diameters make a differance.

[Hector]

One reason why people climb trad on half ropes (as opposed to just using a single) is that half ropes exert less force on the gear (lower impact force e.g. Beal 10mm Tiger = 7.6kN, Beal 8.6mm Cobra = 5.1kN). I.e. less chance of ripping the kit. If you climb on two ropes and one of them is a sport rope then you lose this advantage on half your placements. Keep it in mind and try clip any sketchy kit to the trad line.

[Larry Thomas]

I have been doing some research and I was right about the rope markngs:

(1) is a single rope

(1/2) is a HALF (OR DOUBLE) rope

(∞) is a TWIN rope

So a Twin rope and a double rope are definitely NOT the same thing.

http://www.tradgirl.com/climbing_faq/ad ... tm#doubles

http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Feature.aspx?id=1440

http://www.abc-of-rockclimbing.com/howt ... ystems.asp

http://www.chockstone.org/techtips/tworopes.htm