top rope bolt/chain question

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Larry Thomas
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Re: top rope bolt/chain question

Postby Larry Thomas » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:41 pm

I think the reality is that if I add anything to the existing structures, it will be a mailon on a mailon on a bolt, end of story. Even that is nearly a R200 exercise per climb.

Warren G
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Re: top rope bolt/chain question

Postby Warren G » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:32 pm

** with My Ram Mountaineering hat on**

Mailons recomended retail for 10mm is R55.30. 55kn breaking strain about its major axes- its going to last longer then the bolt!

The 8mm mailon sells at R40, but its breaks at a poultry 35kn. i wouldn't recomend going for any less than that due to the inside diameter, but i would suggest every one has one for retreating

i haven't read the whole forum yet, but why do we need the ring as welll as the mailon? surely if the Mailon is replacable it can take the abuse and then get replaced? it saves the community R100's per chains? it is still easily possable to use it like a ring. if you are woried about it unscrewing then glue it shut, but then it won't be easy to replace/steal
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XMod
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Re: top rope bolt/chain question

Postby XMod » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:36 pm

The rings last way longer than a Mailon, also as we dont have a price on them yet you cant assume it will cost more to use them especially given they last so much longer (long term costs).

Marshall1
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Re: top rope bolt/chain question

Postby Marshall1 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:47 pm

Also rope twist. One mallion on each U bolt will lead to rope twist. You will need 2 per U

Larry Thomas
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Re: top rope bolt/chain question

Postby Larry Thomas » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:27 pm

I had worked on putting a mailon on a mailon on the existing bolt to prevent rope twist. Some of the top anchors at Strubens have that already, just not all of them.

Warren, I think the 35kn on an 8mm mailon will outlast my rope, my harness and my spine if I really take a big fall, so should be more than enough.

The ring idea just seemed like an elegant solution, so if you happen to come across any of those rings, let me know.

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XMod
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Re: top rope bolt/chain question

Postby XMod » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:31 pm

Yeah definitely need two links. Look a short-term low-cost solution can just be a BIG link of harware chain (think overkill) mailoned onto the bolts. Just ensure that any sharp edges on the weld in the chain link are filed flat. This will protect the bolts while you can sort out something more permanent. Many anchors Ive made feature this and are still servicable, BUT I really want to discourage people from going the homemade route. If theres a failure leading to injury or worse........lets not go there!

Larry Thomas
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Re: top rope bolt/chain question

Postby Larry Thomas » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:38 pm

I think that 4 x 8mm Mailons = R160 per climb won't break the bank, if spread over a period of time.

I think the guys that open routes must have more money than brains, just looking at what the hardware alone costs, never mind the time element.

Warren G
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Re: top rope bolt/chain question

Postby Warren G » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:04 am

Larry i was being sarcastic. 35kn is unfathomingly strong.

in Wave cave they installed steel binerss, but its essentially indoors.

H :?: as anyone ever heard of a chain wearing through due to top roping? I haven't :?:
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MarkM
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Re: top rope bolt/chain question

Postby MarkM » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:10 am

I have not seen serious wear on local anchors but if you head to popular overseas destinations, some of the anchors and biners are seriously (read: dangerously) worn.

I think that getting people into a habit of NOT top-roping directly off the anchors is a good preventative measure as it spreads the wear fairly evenly among the users (especially since local climbing numbers do seem to be on the up and up), because lets face it, the people doing the majority of the top-roping are not going to be the ones replacing the anchors when they're worn.
Open hand, open mind...

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XMod
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Re: top rope bolt/chain question

Postby XMod » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:44 am

Yeah Ive also seen mailons badly worn through in France. This was from guides setting up topropes for their clients and being to lazy to set draws as it would mean they had to climb the route again to retreive them! The mailons were apparently only three years old (looked worse to me - rusty).
The only thing wrong with 8mm on the rope side is its a bit thin and puts some stress on the rope (10-12mm is ideal for being gentle on ropes) also being thinner there is less material to wear away - minor gripes.

Heres the stuff we have used when the shops are out of stock of decent anchors. This only a temporary solution and should be replaced as soon as something better can be sourced. In the case of Strubens where there is heavy use steel rings would be best. The rings are probably only R30-40 so not that expensive. The chain is made from 10mm diameter rod and can take a biner and rope comfortably, but you only have to look at this to see the difference in quality between it and a proper rated anchor. However as a stop gap this will cost you less than a mailon.

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