Belay with rope through chains - ethics?

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VaughnC
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Belay with rope through chains - ethics?

Postby VaughnC » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:55 pm

Hi all

Went to chosspile recently.
Nice crowd, good climbing.

Some people seemed to think its ok to lead the climb, and then at the top feed the rope through the two chains and get the belay to lower them on the rope.
Then, everyone else topropes the climb with the rope just running straight through the chains.
Surely this just wears out the chains?
I would have thought a pair of draws clipped through the chains and the rope through the draws would have been better.
Whoever last climbs the thing can then bring the draws down and belay or rap off the rope through the chains?

Opinions?

Cheers
Vaughn

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Mark
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Re: Belay with rope through chains - ethics?

Postby Mark » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:11 pm

Definately agree - no top roping off the chains (unless it is after you have cleaned). If the lead climber is the only guy who knows how to clean he should climb it twice (one to set up the toprope once to clean). I know it gets a lot of traffic but Neil from the MCSA had to put new anchors in at Strubens Valley because the anchors had become worn half way through due to top roping (waste of time and money - avoid the problem).

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Justin
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Re: Belay with rope through chains - ethics?

Postby Justin » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:22 pm

Agreed, its best not to toprope extensively off the chains as it does put a lot of wear on the top anchors. Some anchors at Legoland also had to be replaced due to wear (thank you Stuart Brown).
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XMod
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Re: Belay with rope through chains - ethics?

Postby XMod » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:05 pm

Definitely use your own quickdraws for toproping. In fact one should only abseil off chains after cleaning as lowering also causes wear on the anchors.

nosmo
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Re: Belay with rope through chains - ethics?

Postby nosmo » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:32 am

Yes, this wears out the chains...

If this group of dudes had to get one of the crowd to lead to get the toprope up, they are probably beginners who saw this method somewhere and are probably not aware that it isn't accepted practice. Kindly point this out next time, be sure to explain WHY it is not the best idea, as people get aggro if you just abuse them. But if they litter, like the little shits from the TUKS climbing club beginners day, abuse is mandatory.

VaughnC
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Re: Belay with rope through chains - ethics?

Postby VaughnC » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:42 pm

Hi Guys

That's what I thought.
Didn't want to be pushy, but most of the people there just belayed through the chains. Guys at Strubens yesterday seemed better, all using draws.

Cheers
Vaughn

Old Smelly
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Re: Belay with rope through chains - ethics?

Postby Old Smelly » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:38 pm

Well Mark your point is well made. IF the leader can repeat the lead twice he can afford to use draws at the top of the climb BUT if he barely made it :wink: Which does occur sometimes...& he is putting up multiple ropes for his beginner friends then he may well run the rope through the anchors - or risk not being able to retrieve 2 drawers.

Now of course none of you sterling characters experience these limitations or would put the cost of a few quickdraws above your purist ethics- it is just that I feel that some others are obliged to deal with practicalities first & higher thoughts after- not that this forum likes to hear that- some would rather that people climb with "purist original first ascentionist ethics or at least die trying!

Strubens is off course inexcusable as there is access from the top (& most tall people can reach the top anyway!)
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

MarkM
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Re: Belay with rope through chains - ethics?

Postby MarkM » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:11 pm

Surely if the top rope is already up (through a set of draws) the climb can just be top-roped to clean i.e. no need to re-lead the route and no risk of losing draws.
Also if the climb becomes too hard you can just haul up on the rope, no
Open hand, open mind...

Old Smelly
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Re: Belay with rope through chains - ethics?

Postby Old Smelly » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:26 pm

:thumright Good point! :thumleft: OK maybe I should have spelled out that the application would be for when all the "learners" cannot make it up & the leader has to repeat the route. Sheer laziness I know & the only defence is expediency...you win...I will beat up on anyone who has bad form in future! :eye:

There are of course much more dangerous practices to worry about when dealing with a group of beginners...but bad form is bad form..
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

ant
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Re: Belay with rope through chains - ethics?

Postby ant » Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:29 pm

On this topic, remember that the two quickdraws should be placed such that the gates face in opposite directions, making it impossible for any freak twist/flick/swing etc to unclip the rope.

Just thought it worth a mention,

Todd Ryan
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Re: Belay with rope through chains - ethics?

Postby Todd Ryan » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:23 pm

My 2 cents worth.
I agree with the top roping on your own draws rather than through the chains and with the gates of the draws facing in opposite directions but wanted to add that if you are going to top rope a climb than also leave the last draw in place (draw on last bolt before chains) with the rope clipped in and running down to the belayer for added safety (in case of the rare failure of chains or draws - at least this is what I was taught many years ago as being the correct procedure for top roping.)
I have noticed alot of beginners top roping climbs with the rope going through only the top chains or even through draws on the top chains - there are some climbs out there where chains are bolted to suspect rock or boulders above a crag that will overtime erode or give way, or as in recent debate on another post - what if the climb you are on was bolted incorrectly - wrong bolts, not drilled deep enough, wrong angle, etc, etc.
So rather be safe than sorry


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