to chop or not to chop

Let everyone know about any suspect/dodgy/misplaced bolts to be renewed or avoided.

Do you think the abseil station at the top of India Venster should be chopped?

Poll ended at Thu May 01, 2008 10:17 pm

Yes, definitely. Then apply for permission and rebolt.
5
28%
No, but apply for permisson with TMNP and make them legit.
8
44%
No, but they need to be extended to reduce rope drag.
3
17%
Am bored with Silvermine. Bombay Duck would be a great sports route.
1
6%
We desperately need more tourists in CT. Let's do a Via Ferrata from the quarry to the top of TM.
1
6%
 
Total votes: 18

nosmo
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Postby nosmo » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:07 pm

No worries man.

st0ne
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Postby st0ne » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:15 pm

:roll:

THE POINT IS (according to your logic): if TMNP can make lots of delicious cash (like the cable-way) out of bolting on TM, then they should be allowed to.


No Stu, the point is that the cableway company did not go and illegally put up their structures. It was reviewed and agreed upon a long time ago. Abseil Africa did not go and illegally place anchors and start up their business. It all went through the correct channels. In fact, Abseil Africa has done a lot to accommodate climbers by allowing us to rap their lines back to the ledge for free.

Certainly, there are a lot of routes in the park that are really remote and hidden and *might* be bolted. We all know this, but when someone goes and bolts one of the most popular climbs on TM, when it had a perfectly good chock to ab off, and a well easy walk off to other anchors, then it's time to question just how selfish that might be for the climbing community as a whole. We have to comply with the parks, and if the MCSA does this, and permission is granted, then cool.

Stu
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Postby Stu » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:24 pm

No Stu, the point is that the cableway company did not go and illegally put up their structures. It was reviewed and agreed upon a long time ago. Abseil Africa did not go and illegally place anchors and start up their business. It all went through the correct channels. In fact, Abseil Africa has done a lot to accommodate climbers by allowing us to rap their lines back to the ledge for free.


Damn dude, I thought we put this to rest. You're like a dog with a bone.
No, you're CHANGING 'the point' as soon as you get cornered. Re-read the thread.

st0ne
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Postby st0ne » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:29 pm

Thanks Stu, I'm glad you've pointed this out to me. :roll:

Without guys like you on the forums, I'd just keep on missing the point ALL the time. A heartfelt 'Thank you' once again. Next time there's a vote for MCSA president, I'll be sure to put your name forward, boet.

Stu
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Postby Stu » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:37 pm

Maybe you do, but you'll never know will you... :)

Stu
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Postby Stu » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:20 pm

Hey st0ne, you haven't replied to my PM. I told you who I am, who are you?

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XMod
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Postby XMod » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:46 pm

St0ned you've lost it bru! All those months being 'stuck' up in Jozy (wotsup ur car dont work?) have driven you over the edge.

The MCSA were the ones who placed the original abseil anchors on the ledge using a loophole in regulations and the construction of the new cable station as an excuse, more recently they also placed abseil anchors on Lions Head this time citing protection of vegetation as a 'reason' for the bolts.

Robert (why bother owning up dude???) placed the abseil anchor for the very same reasons as the Lions Head bolts, yet because he did not have the official rubber stamp he is being witch hunted. The MCSA is clearly using double standards in their efforts to maintain control over climbing activities. They should realise that their membership only represents a tiny fraction of the climbing population and they do not by any means represent climbers as a whole. Im not even going to delve into the double standards applied by the TMNP. Ive seen pristine sites in strictly access controlled sanctuaries trashed by movie shoots simply because they paid enough money, etc, etc, etc...

St0ned one you should educate yourself about the facts (or at least read the thread!) before shooting your mouth off, otherwise just STFU you chop!
Last edited by XMod on Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Justin
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Postby Justin » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:49 pm

Hey guys, would this be a good time to bring up the possibility of installing a series of Via Ferrata routes on Table Mountain (or should I start a separate thread :)

A Via Ferrata almost guarantees more people (and money) to the mountain (this type of climbing is huge in Europe).
Climb ZA - Administrator
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brolloks
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Postby brolloks » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:55 pm

gag ... (as i come up for air)

gog ... (stands for gift of the gab)

it seems like you guys have verbal diarrea

facts are: 1) stone is 8a, but he sounded like drifter the last few posts, you know, repeating stuff over and over... and over again... and over ag...
2) don't bolt stuff unless you have permission
3) i feels stupid (as you guys apparently are) by just reading this thread...
...almost died...

justin, pls get us a 'throw-up' smiley facey thinghy




8)
you have one mouth, two ears. listen more...

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XMod
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Postby XMod » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:04 pm

NO! Justin we couldnt possibly install one of those, look at how much lichen has been removed from the rock! It would be an enviro-mental disaster!! :shock: Besides didnt some oke called Jacob already put one up somewhere on the ledge? Ive looked for it often but cant find it, I guess St0ner must have chopped it! :lol:

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Justin
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Postby Justin » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:14 am

The following is from the MCSA Cape Town News Bulletin Newsletter:

TABLE MOUNTAIN: ILLEGAL BOLTING

From a posting by the MCSA (Cape Town Section) rock climbing
subcommittee: A bolt was placed illegally at the top of Bombay
Duck on Venster Buttress last month and as it will jeopardise
relationship with Sanparks, it will be chopped.

Some background: Bolting on the Cape Peninsula has been a
contentious issue since SanParks took over control of the land in
the late-nineties. The MCSA rock climbing sub-committee then had
to fight hard to prevent every bolted route on the peninsula from
being chopped.

Since then, climbers who want to open new routes on the
Peninsula's sport crags have to get permission through an easy
application process. Table Mountain itself has always remained a
bolt-free area except for a small number of
strategically-positioned rap stations to be bolted on Table
Mountain eg the ones on top of Africa and Fountain Ledge.

Given that people were already abseiling off a (rather
dubious) sling point above Bombay Duck, and that this is one of
the most popular climbing venues on the mountain, the
subcommittee feels there is a case for bolting a (legal) rap
station that could serve all of the routes on Venster Buttress.
This will mean less traffic on the walk-off path, which is good
for the environment and reduces the chances of rocks being
trundled down on climbers below.
They will be approaching SanParks on this issue and will keep climbers posted.
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Sam
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Postby Sam » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:48 pm

Please let common sense (and the rap point above BD) prevail. This is not a slippery slope argument. We don't all have power-drills on charge, ready to bolt our favourite trad lines. TMNP should (in principle) have been consulted before the bolting (no dispute there) but this is not going to \"jeopardise\" our relationship with them. Surely they don't care about two inconspicuous bolts in a rock? If they DO start to care we only have ourselves to blame for making such a song and dance about it.

According to the poll, the majority of climbers want the rap point to stay...lets respect their votes and stop being so petty.


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