Llandudno Slackline Destroyed

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Warren G
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Llandudno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Warren G » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:34 am

A few Months ago Matt kindly placed 2 bolts on Llandudno boulders for slacklining purposses. i was there on Wed and saw that the one hanger was removed and the bolt had been destroyed. This is frustrating as the other option for a slackline on any beach are poles in the sand, which take time to install and get washed away. If there are any reasons why someone would damage a facility like this we would like to know so that we can mitigate our offensive behavour on the beach in the future.

I doubt a climber would do this, however as slackliners are climbers I post this for all to know.
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Spike
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Spike » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:47 am

The likely answer is likely that some sections of the community don't like the idea of people coming along and drilling into the local rocks in our pristine nature as if it were their private property in their backyard.
Just a thought.

I'm pretty sure there must be loads of people who feel strongly enough to take things into their own hands. Somebody must be quite offended before making the effort to destroy a bolt

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XMod
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by XMod » Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:34 pm

A lot of ppl strongly dislike the bolts at Llandudno. Im not surprised someone had a go at it. If you have to get official permission to bolt a sport route, what makes you think its any different with placing bolts for other purposes? You cant just place permanent anchors wherever you feel like it, why dont you have more consideration for other beach/nature users in future and keep your rigs to places where you can remove all of the rigging when u are done?

Perhaps I should come and build a skatepark/ice rink/motoctross track in your lounge/home - u wont mind will you? After all its just a bit of harmless fun and the equipment wont get in your face.... much......

C'mon use your brain for once, Matt has actually done the climbing fraternity a disservice by placing that bolt, nothing kind about it. Sounds like y'all need to consider other ppl's needs over your own for a change, oh and its Llandudno but u dud no that right?

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Leebo
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Leebo » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:50 pm

It amazes me that people don't mind two big poles sticking out of the sand, yet a couple unobtrusive bolts (along with your spelling Warren) gets panties in a twist.

I don't have a bakkie but would be more than willing to help out wherever I can to help put poles back in the sand if this is the only viable option.

L

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XMod
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by XMod » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:30 pm

Leebo wrote:It amazes me that people don't mind two big poles sticking out of the sand, yet a couple unobtrusive bolts (along with your spelling Warren) gets panties in a twist.
That may be because the poles can obviously be removed without scarring the sand? Maybe ppl think the poles are a very wide volleyball court for dwarves? :jocolor:

Personally I find steel sticking out of an otherwise perfectly natural rockface, with an accompanying smear of rust, in such a location to be offensive, Im sure many Llandudno residents would agree. The bolts on the rocky peninsula have been a point of contention since the very first ones were put in over twenty years ago, yet I see via this website that someone has seen fit to add yet more bolts, and now - this. The beach is a totally inappropriate place to be putting bolts both from the perspective of natural beauty (isnt it also part of TMNP reserve?) as well as the simple unchangeable fact that they will rust through in next to no time. In addition most of the bolted routes are either soloable or easily protected by non permanent means.

Surely you can see the reason behind the argument for not placing bolts at the beach?????

Stu
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Stu » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:17 pm

Can't you camouflage those bolts so they're virtually invisible?

toejam
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by toejam » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:05 am

Xmod, I think you have opinions just have something to say, how many bolts have you placed on perfectly natural rock? A couple of bolts on a granite boulder (similar color) are anything but obtrusive.

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Turtle
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Turtle » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:20 am

Sorry, but coming from and total objective vantage point, what Greg said makes good sense re access in this particular LOCATION . We're not talking about Kalkbay crags or Peers Cave here...

It would be good to hear a local resident speak re this...

SMEG
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by SMEG » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:38 am

a local resident who spent millions carving up the hillside, disrupting and preventing the natural growth of sand banks. sounds like a very pristine environment to me? :pukel:

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mullet
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by mullet » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:14 am

I think SMEG has a valid point regarding this little bit of hypocrisy. Perhaps all of the millionaire mansions should also be painted/camouflaged so that they are virtually invisible?
...Chalk is cheap...

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Turtle
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Turtle » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:28 am

:lol:

Dudes, I guess then we all should just go stealth, tipex ourselves off the plannet... Goodby cruel world...

Is there a spookie smiley facey thinghy?

:batman:

Ag, I don't know anymore... I guess if you say or do anything, pop a fart or pick your nose, someone else out there might take offense, feel like their privacy or right has been violated. Where do we draw a line?

oi... :scratch:

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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Bubblyworld » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:45 pm

Living in Hout Bay, I tend to go to Llandudno quite often. Before I started climbing, I have to say I never noticed the bolts there at all - they did not at all ruin the "pristine" environment for me...

Far more noticeable that a few bolts on a granite boulder is the broken bottles, litter etc. that everyday beach-goers leave behind.

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Spike
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Spike » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:25 pm

Where do we draw a line?
Draw the line at leaving powertools at home when heading out into nature areas that aren't your private property ie only drill into stuff that you paid for

Warren G
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Warren G » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:00 pm

Firstly can we please keep this a discussion regarding the topic at hand rather then insulting any individual? Personal attacks do not inspire me to reply or comment. on a lighter not i never got an "A" for spelling, so i can accept a jab in this regard :drunken: , thanks Lee!

Regarding these beach lines I think consensus above is right in that we should be talking to appropriate governing bodies regarding permanent structures on beaches, including houses, walkways, poles and bolts, although I would expect these administrators already exist. Morally it would be great if we could leave no mark after doing anything outdoors and so having a removable anchor system would be ideal. We have since spotted potential lines that have these characteristics on other beaches and so with some research we could say that the line on X place needs the following gear for protection. I expect this is the ultimate solution.

I do wonder about the argument of placing bolts on beaches: is the offence that the bolt is in rock (destined to scar it) or is it that it is in a more public place like a beach? The former is the trad/sport debate, while the later this isn't a matter of morals but hiding our embarrassment on less popular places, like crags far from the non-climbing public.
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Stu
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Stu » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:48 am

Bubblyworld wrote:Living in Hout Bay, I tend to go to Llandudno quite often. Before I started climbing, I have to say I never noticed the bolts there at all - they did not at all ruin the "pristine" environment for me...

Far more noticeable that a few bolts on a granite boulder is the broken bottles, litter etc. that everyday beach-goers leave behind.
You forgot the warm piles of dog poo.... :shock:

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XMod
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by XMod » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:13 pm

1. Does the Marine reserve not extend from Table bay all the way around the peninsula to Simonstown? (check this). If so the placing of any permanent anchors without a permit is contrary to regulations (the same regulations as apply to TMNP) and therefore illegal.

2. Steel anchors right next to the sea are inappropriate as they rust quickly becoming useless in a very short space of time.

3. Bolts permanently change and scar an otherwise purely natural rockface, something that litter and dog faeces do not. None of the bolts placed at Llandudno are essential to either climbing there or slacklining.

4. Houses are privately owned and the owners are quite entitled to build in whatever manner they chose (also within regulations), the beach however is public land and should not be treated as your own private playground. Have some respect for others in that space and leave it in the same state for future generations. DONT DESTROY WHAT YOU CAME TO ENJOY! Bolts are not indispensable to your enjoyment of the beach, and there are endless other places you can play with your slackline.

5. The bolts at Llandudno have been a point of contention for many years with not one, but several residents (including several climbers) expressing their disgust at their existence. This in turn reflects back on the climbing community as a whole. Why more bolts have been placed there when it was so obviously 'not cool' and when it is equally obvious how quickly those bolts became unusable, is a complete mystery to me! :-? :scratch:

I think I've made the logic behind my argument quite clear, yet none of you have produced one single logical point to defend your position. This fact should make you think!

PS. Placing bolts at a recognised climbing area with full legal permission is quite a different matter to bolting illegally at THE BEACH. Take up surfing or something if you like the beach that much! :thumright

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Scott
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Scott » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:39 pm

Lots of people throw around the idea that it is illegal to bolt. It may be in Llandudno but don't use the argument that it is in the TMNP and therefore illegal as Silvermine is and we can place bolts if we choose. It happens to be in a designated area where bolting is allowed but Im just saying not everything within site of TM is a no bolting/bolting is illegal area.

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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Justin » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:20 pm

Image
Above: The location of the Llandudno Slackline - bolt placements are indicated by the red dots

Image
Above: The bolt on the Right - the nut/thread is damaged and the nut seemingly is locked in place, the hanger is obviously loose too

Image
Above: Same bolt as the picture above taken from the front

Image
Above: The bolt on the Left - the thread is damaged, no hanger or nut in sight

Image
Above: Close up of left bolt (which is not very clear) I had a look at the thread and it is damaged
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Stu
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Stu » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:34 pm

My question to the bolter - why the heck didn't you camouflage the bolts to begin with? Surely you should have anticipated complaints with shiny new bolts being placed...

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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by XMod » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:18 am

Hi Scott, it is illegal (ie against park regulations) anywhere in any nature reserve in South Africa. The bolting in Silvermine happens within a recognised climbing area and is allowed by special permit only. Llandudno falls within the marine coastal reserve which is managed in part by TMNP. The same regulations apply as do a host of other regulations governing public space (namely in this case the beach) which also prohibit mining or construction (which covers bolting). So those bolts were placed illegally.

Stu painting the bolts is not going stop them from rusting quickly. Aside from the legality issues its just simply not a good idea to bolt right next to the sea. I really think (seeing where the bolts are) that if the slackers had just poked around a bit they would have found cracks that would take natural protection.

My personal take on this is that the bolts are just an unecessary bit of stupidity, put there to satisfy a minority desire for convenience. Personally I think all the bolts at Lland's should be removed.

Anyway, this is not really about personal opinions or winning arguments on a forum, Its about respecting Nature and other ppl's right to enjoy the natural environment in as unspoilt a state as possible for generations to come. Actions such as placing these bolts do not serve those aims!

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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by zabullet » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:05 am

I think we can agree that its not really about bolts or poles being there but the fact we don't want hippie slackliners. With comments like
The complete blanking out of the mind and going into a primal state where your body is just reacting to the external factors eg. line movement, wind etc.. You become one with the line and everything else falls away.
and
on my side i would like to do slackline yoga: i can do a warrior pose and a few others, but would like to grow
can you blame us? With their bare feet and open mind and all their energy. Who needs it? If we don't stop them now, soon there will be drum circles, didgeridoos and fire dancers.

zb.

David Vallet
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by David Vallet » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:48 pm

Hi Warren,

A Slackline on llandudno beach doesn’t really have much bearing on my life.
But a little information from the world wide web.

I reccon these are the people you need to speak to concerning llandudno beach.
http://www.houtbaycpf.org.za/documents/agmminutes.pdf

And this is were you can contact them.
http://www.llandudno.org.za/

I would also consider these in your proposal.
(Perhaps, contemplate beginning that with an apology)
http://www.climb.co.za/tag/removable-bolts/

From one perspective, with reasons why someone would damage a facility.

Don’t be too surprised if a climber was involved.
It seems to me like Llandudno beach is a place, were children might play.
They tend to want to put their fingers through holes in shinny objects,
And as most climbers know, Bolts are notoriously unforgiving on the metacarpals.

Whichever hero altered those bolts did as good a job as I can tell, sans power tools.
By bringing the nut back and loosening the hanger, he’s made it infinitely safer.
The destruction of the thread then prevents it from being tightened, again.

I can also imagine someone throwing his towel over the other bolt, preparing for a beautiful sunset with his babe and getting a very painful surprise, more so than the drawing pin on a teachers thrown.

In the mean time, push the wire through the head of a nut. Place it over the protruding vertical bolt and clip that. A spinning hanger should make little difference to a slack line when it’s under tension.
Personally, I’d shy away from the embarrassment of being involved and take it like a man if an angry father, who’s just laid out R15 000 to have his kids fingers fixed. Socks you one.

Matt has created a Hazard.

Anyway’s
Good Luck with That.

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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by 9ja » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:55 pm

Wow, seeing this now I can't believe you guys took it upon yourselves to place bolts on boulders on a public beach. I agree with Xmod, what gives you guys the right to do this? The beach belongs to everyone, and I'm certain you guys could have made a better plan with some trad gear/slings etc. This is shameful, selfish and illegal. What if everyone decided it was their right to 'express' themselves like this? This attitude of entitlement will get climbing nowhere. To the OP, please go and clean up your mess by chopping those bolts, making the stubs safe, and maybe in future consider those who also have a right to an unspoiled beach.

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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Ansie » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:36 pm

@XMod, get real dude, Llundudno is the last place I would go to if i feel like "appreciating unspoiled nature". Those bolts don't subtract any aesthetic value from the boulders. And 2 bolts are not the same as a skateboard park. Besides people don't go to the beach to take a close look at the rocks. They go there to get some sun while they check out hot guys and girls. Maybe some fat guy without balance who lives close to the beach feels threatened by the athletic stunts of the slack-liners. If you ask me, a fixed spot for a slack-line only adds value to that beach. Your argument that bolting defaces rock is lame (please note that I am not dissing you as a person, I am just criticizing your point of view). The fact of the matter is that construction defaces nature. Imagine how awesome Cape Town would be if there was no Capetonians or foreigners living in in dwellings made of glass, steel and concrete. F*ck those guys with their expensive beach-front property, who chop other peoples bolts of. Maybe they can't stand the fact that fun is usually (almost) free.

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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by 9ja » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:15 pm

Ansie, those houses are private properties. The beach is for everyone. Just because you deem it cool for people to slap bolts wherever they choose doesnt make it right in the least. Besides, those bolts will rust to useless levels within a year or two, then needing to be replaced. It sets a president for everyone to do as they wish with that way of thinking. I love grafitti. Does this entitle me to express that at Llundudno too? By your argument it seems to.

If the guys cant find a way to set up anchors with trad gear, they should find a better spot. The beach is for everyone to enjoy.

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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Ansie » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:38 am

edited
Last edited by Ansie on Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by mokganjetsi » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:34 am

right on ansie!! ever thought of getting into politics? :mrgreen:
9ja wrote:Just because you deem it cool for people to slap bolts wherever they choose doesnt make it right in the least
9ja, you inflate the situation endless. a couple of bolts on boulders on a beach where there are a gizillion other man-made structures close by isn't anything. it's worlds apart form bolts in pristine kloofs and wild places like the cederberg.

as to the "danger" of these bolts to small fingers - come on! - have a look around and see what other dangers are around there. putting you finger through a bolt does not mean finger gets ripped off; you need to fall and/or hang on it..... :roll:

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Justin
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Justin » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:53 am

Before anyone goes and 'chops' a few houses at Llandudno...

Situation: The holes/bolts have been placed and slacklines are fun. The question remains 'what are we going to do'?

1) Chop the bolts = No more slackline, stud ends remain.
2) Remove the bolts with much care and place Titanium glue-ins (same holes) & hope they don' get chopped again
3) Place a hanger onto the stud and forcefully wrench the nut on (with Locktight glue)
4) Do nothing

Also: Should official permission be sought before anything is done?
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by XMod » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:27 am

Justin et al: You are sidestepping the whole point, official permission should have been sought before the bolts were placed at all. The slackline bolts are not the only bolts that have been placed recently at Llandudno illegally without permission. I seem to recall a recent cover pic on this site ahowing the others. The stud sticking out of a low flat rock poses a distinct danger to anyone sitting on it inadvertantly (whether they are fat or not - what their size has to do with it Im not sure!).

What to do? Remove all of the bolts in Lland's area. Use natural placements (plentiful in that corner of the beach and on the peninsula for climbing) to rig up ur fun and games!!! Dont bolt anywhere unless you have first acquired the correct permit. Reading through this thread its pretty clear that arguments against are clear and logical yet those in favour (of the bolts) come across as peeving teenagers! This lame argument that 'oh well its done already' doesnt wash at all. We've been through this argument about bolts at Lland's once before in the 1990's, seems like every new generation feels they are above the law and can do as they please. Which is why old farts like me are feel duty bound to point out their errors. Again this is not about some opinion pole on an arbitrary (to the general public) website, its about respecting nature and respecting the law!

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Justin
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Re: Llududno Slackline Destroyed

Post by Justin » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:52 am

Heya, I'm not side stepping or arguing.

I'm just asking the question: What next?
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