CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post your meet details here... Mountain Club of South Africa, other clubs, slideshows, etc
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climbcityrock
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CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by climbcityrock » Wed May 25, 2016 5:43 pm

Are you ready for the return of CityROCK crag days?

Meet us at the parking by the gate of Silvermine Reserve at 8:30am. We'll be heading to the lower crag, where there will be top ropes set up on a few different routes from 9am till 1pm.
Bring along a harness, a pair of shoes, some snacks and water, and (of course) your friends.

CityROCK members pay R100, non-members pay R250, and entrance for MCSA members is free - bring your membership card with 2016 sticker! Remember to book with us - capetown@cityrock.co.za.

Directions: From Cape Town, take Ou Kaapse Weg towards Noordhoek. Once on top of the mountain turn right into the Silvermine Reserve. There is an entrance fee of R45.00 to get into the reserve. A Wild card also gets you in.

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Forket
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Forket » Wed May 25, 2016 10:20 pm

besides that it's awesome to see climbing gyms getting involved in enabling people to access climbing in the outdoors, WTF are you doing charging people R150/R250 (excluding entrance) to do so. Ever consider that if you did it probono, nonCs might actually like it and support your business more than the few older folk you about to attract. Like wtf happened to the spirit of the sport we involve ourselves in and just giving someone a "no strings attached" belay for their pleasure. :hapban

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Forket
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Forket » Wed May 25, 2016 10:22 pm

To the people that think the above advert is a good idea. Make a climbing friend with gear. Ask them to take you climbing. It will be close to free and way more fun

Pierce
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Pierce » Thu May 26, 2016 8:34 am

Valid point Ebert :thumleft:

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Justin
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Justin » Thu May 26, 2016 11:11 am

Yes and no... it does depend. I've seen 'friends teaching friends' bad/wrong techniques (that form bad habits...). If things go wrong can that friend get you off the mountain i.e. setup a haul to rescue you off the route - trad climbing specific. There is more to it than just a belay.

Assuming that CityROCK/MCSA are going to have qualified instructors at the meet, then the fee is minimal.
The general environment would also presumably be a much safer one.

Time: Due to the fast(er) pace of life, a persons time (job, family, chores and own climbing time) has become more valuable these days.

I'm not saying don't learn from a friend (I was very fortunate to start climbing this way), but there is nothing wrong with a 'paid for' Crag Day. Free if you belong to a club.
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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Nic Le Maitre » Thu May 26, 2016 11:58 am

So inject a note of caution here:

You need to be a registered, paid up guide with the relevant qualifications in order to charge money for services, i.e. you'll need at least top-rope supervisor or lead climb supervisor in order for this to be legal and you to be covered by the insurance.

If you don't have those qualifications, then you are opening yourself up to a world of problems when the SHTF.

I presume (some of) the City Rock people have licenses but Joe Soap from the MCSA who just wants to help out doesn't.
Happy climbing
Nic

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climbcityrock
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by climbcityrock » Thu May 26, 2016 12:34 pm

Hey Nic, thanks for your concern - rest assured, all our bases are covered there.

With regard to the other commentary, Justin took the words right out of our mouths. :thumleft:

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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Nic Le Maitre » Thu May 26, 2016 1:17 pm

climbcityrock wrote:Hey Nic, thanks for your concern - rest assured, all our bases are covered there.
Ok, perfect.
Happy climbing
Nic

Andy Davies
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Andy Davies » Thu May 26, 2016 1:53 pm

Bearing in mind a trail run costs around R400 and nobody is teaching you anything and they aren't providing you with gear, I'd say the costs are pretty fair. And its free for MCSA members :hapban
Good stuff CityRock!
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Forket » Thu May 26, 2016 7:57 pm

If you want to climb on rock for free. Create a forum topic and ask someone to take you out to a crag. People in this community are there to help (mostly) you and most people will be keen to do so cheaply/for free. Dont let corporations/clubs charge you. Climbing is free
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Justin
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Justin » Fri May 27, 2016 7:56 am

Ok, I'll bite :)

In addition to my post above...

Prey tell, why did you (or your folks) pay money to an institution for you to learn your profession?
You could have just posted on the local Geologist forum and someone would have taken you out.
Now I know there are a good few smart answers to that but ultimately you went to a place of learning so that you could could get taught properly and practice your trade.

Paying it forward: this is being done on this forum already - check out the Partners Section - many people have hooked up here.

Ebert, I believe that you are building a climbing/Boulder wall at present? Where does the money/funding come from to build and maintain that wall - climbing grips, power, water, doors, cleaning staff, annual maintenance of the building, etc? And do you need to belong (be paid up) to a club/institution or pay a fee to climb there?

Clubs may also offer social activities and facilities, equipment and some members may join to take advantage of the social opportunities.

Payment/fees: Contrary to popular belief, not all climbers are dirtbags. What is being offered here is reasonable.
Climbing is free, but some people don't mind spending 2 beers and a pizza worth to go do it in an organised manner where they know the knowledge passed onto them is true and correct.
By paying they also do not owe anyone anything (no favour to pass back) thereby saving ones precious time.
Its a choice, no one is forcing anyone to attend.
Lastly jobs are created (for climbers who get to teach others).

Peace
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Turtle
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Turtle » Fri May 27, 2016 8:13 am

R100 to R250 eat as much as you can seems fair to me...
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Old Smelly » Fri May 27, 2016 9:09 am

Personally I think Trolls should stay under a bridge somewhere out of sight...

Grow up - nothing is free...

So you have to buy a harness and shoes and quickdraws and a rope and hopefully a helmet. Yes - if you have a patron you may be able to get away with no rope or quickdraws for a while. That makes cost of entry pretty low for a sport (if climbing is a sport - another debate for another time).

Now you want to go climb. On whose land? Oh you want to sport climb - where did the bolts come from? You didn't pay for them- NO (clearly not). Ok - lets say it's private land - pay an entrance fee, but wait - who negotiated the access - hmm dunno but I guess they had to tell the landowner that there wouldn't be excessive noise and drinking and lighting of fires or no one would allow them on their land. Ok - not private land then - free government land - oh but wait- look no one wants noisy parties and drunk or drugged up people on government land - so the parks rangers ban everyone who climbs -who will negotiate access again? Who pays for land so we can all climb on it, and pays the rates and taxes, and burns the firebreaks and looks after the conservation of the land - I suspect it's not trolls - who probably illegally trespass on that land and attempt to bolt it...

The land, the bolts, the time taken to administer the land, the rates, the care of the land, the security patrolling in some cases - none of this is actually FREE.

I suspect climbing is not FREE. I think there are a lot of USERS who just take and do not actually contribute. So maybe it's not a club who negotiate all access or who buy all the bolts - but it is either good minded benefactors who do this or its a club consisting of such benefactors. So what do you do - try and break down these clubs and groups of benefactors? Or do you just Julius Malema the whole time because that is your nature? You tell me.

On the topic - as mentioned above no one is forced to go on any outdoor activity - even if the monies paid is just to cover costs - you choose to go.
I do believe in apprenticeships and climbing crews but for those starting out neither of these are easy to find, so this may be an opportunity worth paying for.
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

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Turtle
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Turtle » Sat May 28, 2016 8:50 am

And I agree, Forket seems to be the Julius Malema of this here forum. So whatever, Juju.

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Justin
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Justin » Sat May 28, 2016 10:04 am

Turtle wrote:Forket seems to be the Julius Malema of this here forum.
I agree with that, and for all the BS, every once in a smurf blue moon... Forket does bring up a relevant point :eye:
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Rastaman
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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by Rastaman » Sat May 28, 2016 11:17 am

Blue Moons occur every 2 to 3 years

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Re: CityROCK Crag Day: 5 June

Post by SNORT » Sun May 29, 2016 1:14 pm

No climbing is for free. There is a cost to all climbing both in time and money. Some people contribute and some don't by making new ascents, buying bolts, establishing water sources and dealing with and securing access and so on.

There is no such thing as free climbing. If you ask someone to take you climbing they are gifting you. It is still not free! The least you can then do is pay in kind by buying the person a beer, taking your own car and pay the petrol (which is not "free"), pay the tolls etc etc etc. All these things amount to a form of "currency" which comes from the word current or flow. It is the "flow" of value that in an ideal would be exactly reciprocal.

However it is quite difficult to get reciprocity 100% correct and money was invented to simply and make practical the "flow" of value or "currency".

So you can trade your time or beer or petrol or whatever for someone to take you climbing, or you can simply pay for it in cash which is simple and there is then no "debt" or argument as to the value unless of course you feel that you "did not get your money's worth." Quite frankly for that to happen a crag day would cost R1,000.00 or more. R100 or R250 is a nominal amount.

The essence of what Forket seems to be promoting is something called "free-loading". That is not sustainable and eventually there is a "price" to pay which is alienation from the climbing community and ostracization and possible denial of access to climbing areas.

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