Open Discussion: Lower-off's

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NatureBoi
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Open Discussion: Lower-off's

Post by NatureBoi » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:17 am

Having done a lot of ARF and bolted my own routes I am always looking for ways to improve all things climbing.

I recently climbed a route that had 'Rams horn (AKA Pig tail)' lower-off's: http://team-tough.com/product/woo-single-2-2/

I think it is a great system as you don't untie. They are not that expensive either.

ARF and myself currently use: http://www.raumerclimbing.com/eng/prodo ... inav=0-7-c

There are these (but way to costly) http://www.raumerclimbing.com/eng/prodo ... inav=0-7-c

What is your opinion on which lower-off's should be used,

Cheers
Cormac

Brussel
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Re: Open Discussion: Lower-off's

Post by Brussel » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:30 am

hey Cormac,
The pig tail works well, especially if it is connected via chains to both bolts so there is only one pigs tail...a double one looks like a royal PITA
Also there are the ones that City rock now uses on some routes. I cannot find a picture right now...

Anything that avoids untying from the rope is going to make for safer climbing

<edit>
here are the ones I was talking about, made by Raumer
Image
Last edited by Brussel on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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NatureBoi
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Re: Open Discussion: Lower-off's

Post by NatureBoi » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:34 am

Brussel wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:30 am
hey Cormac,
The pig tail works well, especially if it is connected via chains to both bolts so there is only one pigs tail...a double one looks like a royal PITA
Also there are the ones that City rock now uses on some routes. I cannot find a picture right now...

Anything that avoids untying from the rope is going to make for safer climbing
Cool, You talkiing about this http://www.raumerclimbing.com/eng/prodo ... s&qi=0-6-0
Last edited by NatureBoi on Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Justin
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Re: Open Discussion: Lower-off's

Post by Justin » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:16 am

The pig tail lower off's are great - are they easy to replace (looks like you can muscle them through)?
Obviously they will wear faster (than a ring).

The rings are great, yes you need to untie, but all climbers should know how to do this.

The carabiner is great, but they wear fast. CityROCK sponsored the quick links that I put up at the Steeple. IMO they have lasted long (6 years), but they are becoming quite worn and I need to go an inspect them soon.
Having (expensive) quicklinks at the top of routes is awesome. But to keep it manageable, climbers need to contribute towards the purchasing. If everyone forgoes R100 (lets say there are 300 regular sport climbers in the cape - that's R30'000 to spend on top anchors). It works well if everyone contributes.

The great thing about all of your choices is that the entire anchor is made from the same metal as the bolt (which will combat corrosion in the long term).

My choices:
1.) Pig Tails (based on ease of use and cost)
2.) Raumer Double Ring (based on cost and durability)
3.) Raumer Ring and Carabiner (based on ease of use - for popular routes only)

Thanks,
Cormac


Below: Quassimodo top anchors
Image
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Wes
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Re: Open Discussion: Lower-off's

Post by Wes » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:13 pm

Justin wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:16 am
Below: Quassimodo top anchors
Image
Interesting discussion guys.

Justin, why have you placed them with the gates facing the rock? I cant think of why this would be any safer, just more awkward to clip.

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NatureBoi
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Re: Open Discussion: Lower-off's

Post by NatureBoi » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:59 pm

Brussel wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:30 am
hey Cormac,
The pig tail works well, especially if it is connected via chains to both bolts so there is only one pigs tail...a double one looks like a royal PITA
Also there are the ones that City rock now uses on some routes. I cannot find a picture right now...

Anything that avoids untying from the rope is going to make for safer climbing

<edit>
here are the ones I was talking about, made by Raumer
Image
Regarding the gate, I'm not crazy about anything that can move/ pivot, I used similar where the the gate had corroded slightly and made clipping troublesome. Although those displayed are AISI 316L material, so corrosion would be a lot slower.
Regarding the ''Europe'' Anchors shown above- I don't think they make them to suite glue-ins.
The rope will also run on/in the same point so wear will be accelerated. This is where double rings are great as they each move independently. I'm also not a fan of single rings (for mechanical expansion bolts). The single ring can bind to the edge of the hanger or can be trapped by contact/ friction with the rock-thus not rendering movement and cause wear in a single spot.
Last edited by NatureBoi on Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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NatureBoi
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Re: Open Discussion: Lower-off's

Post by NatureBoi » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:04 pm

Justin wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:16 am
The pig tail lower off's are great - are they easy to replace (looks like you can muscle them through)?
Obviously they will wear faster (than a ring).
Not necessarily so, It has 4 wear points on Ø10mm round bar.
I think the contact point will wear way faster than corrode, esp in Montagu
Justin wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:16 am

Having (expensive) quicklinks at the top of routes is awesome. But to keep it manageable, climbers need to contribute towards the purchasing. If everyone forgoes R100 (lets say there are 300 regular sport climbers in the cape - that's R30'000 to spend on top anchors). It works well if everyone contributes.
I'm busy investigating local manufacture of Pigtails:
1) I have sourced material.
2) I have sourced a manufacturer. (Would be great to support local industry.)
3) My one concern is getting them tested by CSIR/ SABS to negate any liability.
4) If we get a large enough batch made it will drop the price per unit.

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Justin
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Re: Open Discussion: Lower-off's

Post by Justin » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:19 pm

Wes wrote: Justin, why have you placed them with the gates facing the rock? I cant think of why this would be any safer, just more awkward to clip.
That was the configuration of how the lower offs came. I assume that somebody made a mistake during the manufacturing process!?
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Old Smelly
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Re: Open Discussion: Lower-off's

Post by Old Smelly » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:36 am

I would have thought you guys would have preferred this type;
Conventional Anchor.jpg
Conventional Anchor.jpg (3.82 KiB) Viewed 477 times
I prefer these though...
Draco.jpg
Draco.jpg (9.32 KiB) Viewed 477 times
So I guess it does all come down to funding - particularly if you can get your anchors to last a long time...

Are sport routes worth investing in? Who should the investors be?
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

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