Page 1 of 1

Black Karma

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:05 am
by shorti
I noticed on the homepage, at the latest 8a ascents section, an ascent of a route named Black Karma was logged by Ebert Nel. It caught my attention, because it's a route that was opened by a mate of mine and he asked me to climb it and tell him what I think of it. I haven't climbed it (yet).

Anyway, I had a quick look at Ebert's score card and by the looks of it, he is obviously quite a strong lad and I'd venture to say a promising talent (I don't think I know him). Black Karma is a very short but rather hard route, maybe soft for its grade since it is so short and not very sustained, but nevertheless it is hard at +- 25. To add to the impressiveness, in my opinion the route should get an R rating at least, since the gear is not really good enough, especially above the roof. Neil tried it once and broke the flake under the roof and very nearly decked. I was also impressed that the young man went for the flash and got it. Are you brave or what? :shock: Who gave you the beta? Neil would be my guess, otherwise it is Brian. It sure wasn't the FA and it wasn't me either :)

To get to the point, all I want to say is well done lad! If you are new to the Magalies, welcome and go climb the old adventurous classics. I hope you read this :thumleft:

Re: Black Karma

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:34 am
by dirktalma
Nice Ebert! I think they went to Cederberg this sunday. Well done man!

Re: Black Karma

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:30 pm
by Wes B
No ways a trad climber giving a sport climber respect!! Now thats intense! Shorti im glad you said something and gave him some encouragement. Oh I gave the beta. He watched me climb it. Oh and more sends are gonna pop up from the kloofs more often. The pta domination has started.

Thanks man.

Re: Black Karma

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:49 pm
by Forket
Heya Shorti

Thanks for the words, means a lot, was a fun route, not much of a trad climber but since chosspile is closed we moving into the kloofs and cedarberg sunday is the new thing i guess:) was planning on trying Terminator but wes and alex wanted to do the 27 next to it so will try it next time, luckely seeing wes on Black Karma inspired me to try it and was fun, dodgey but fun, good warmup. Just love being in the kloof, so beautiful, probably head there Thursday again, also saw some untraded and untradable lines there that will b harder than 8a probably, who can we talk to about bolting an untradable line?

its not about climbing at your limit anymore, its about accepting that there are no limits
Ebert Nel

Re: Black Karma

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:55 pm
by shorti
WHOA, hold on there a bit with your journalist talk, I wasn't saying nothing 'bout respecting them stinkin' sports climbers, blegh! :lol:

Haha, ok seriously, it's good that you guys are interested. Have you climbed Eliminator? Please be very careful, that bolt is ancient and it looks a tad dodgy to me, but you guys should know better, I don't really trust bolts and I really dislike decking, so I try climbing higher up where the odds are on my side. Same goes for the ring piton and the top cam placement just before the bulge is prone to a bit of walking, use a long sling. I'd also like to warn you about Life After Enlightenment (left of Black Karma), just in case you get this crazy urge in your loins to try it. DO NOT TRY TO ONSIGHT IT! It's dangerous and very touch and go. Rehearse it well on top-rope first and leave some extended gear to protect the middle section. The route has never been repeated as far as I know, not the full route in any case. The bottom bit was bouldered by many.

Something else to try, Climbing in bed with Madonna. It is on Boggle's buttress. Speak to someone who has climbed it, I've seen Colin on it a while back. Twilight floozy had it's bolts replaced, but sadly wasn't climbed. You guys can give it a go if you feel strong enough. As far as I know only Paul Brouard and Richard Lord has sent it, maybe Andrew too, not sure.

Ok, now for the sticky bolting new lines bit. The short answer is forget about it. There is a committee who you can ask for permission to replace old bolts, but you won't have any luck with a new route. The long answer will come from me, I'm not going to speak for the committee or the MCSA or their reasons. You should go speak to someone on the committee or maybe Neil or Andrew Pedly - Hector and Andrew Porter might also be a good idea. My answer: I think you guys should climb the old classics first. By that I don't mean the bolted lines, there's not that many of them. I know Wes have been out with Hector a bit, but I think you guys can find a new dimension in properly learning to climb on trad gear. Also to climb big routes, adventurous routes. It is a bit of a paradigm shift, but I'm sure you okes will enjoy it a lot, at least there's a chance. Do that on easier routes, many of them, because it takes a lot of time and effort to become good at it. As you get more confident and proficient with gear and the whole science of "what's gonna happen when I fall", you can try pushing it harder. You have probably heard this story before, but what I'm trying to say is, join us, learn why we do it and love it. Maybe you will love it too and maybe you will understand why we are trying to protect trad climbing in the kloofs. I know you said untradable lines, but learn the old way first, you can only benefit. I don't want to curb your enthusiasm, you'll find a kick ass line somewhere to write your name on. One 5-star route is much better than many iffy routes, especially if you bolt it, BUT climb the old one's first :thumleft:

I'm going to be very busy until the municipal elections, but after that I won't mind showing you guys a line or two. I don't climb as hard as you guys, but I've scouted a bit with Heinrich and I can maybe show you a trick or two of our trade.

Re: Black Karma

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:39 pm
by pierre.joubert
shorti wrote:I'm going to be very busy until the municipal elections
I knew it, you're a gawwerment agent. Explains it all pretty much. Where is Black Karma, up high in Cederberg by the MCSA sign?

Stoked to see the level of psyche from some strong strong dudes. Inspired okes. H

The MCSA (i.e. the landowner) does not allow new bolts to be placed in the kloof. That just means you have to harden up, climb it on gear and get to tell the ballies what's what. Matt Wilder style

Re: Black Karma

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:26 pm
by Forket
Yes thats where it is, the black roof thingy (beautiful unclimbed face to the right, why no line there?)

Wow thanks again, 1stly wow the eliminator saw some big woopers yesterday, cams popping etc, but we know our limits and it was climbed with preplaced gear and gear tested with falls before climbing it, not 27 tho by the looks of it:P We keep it safe, im the safety switch in the group.

About Life After Enlightenment, its gonna see repeats, but we did see that there is no gear and we do take our lives seriously, will check it out and do it properly:) Next trad climb however is acromax in fernkloof, because bolted things can also be tradded:D

In bed with Madonna i would really like to onsight all 3 pitches so i want to find someone that is willing to 2nd all the pitches but there is alot to do and onsight missions can wait for a later stage, for the world is big and I have a whole kloof now to tick and enjoy, so beautiful, wow. And as for multi-pitching, I have a fear of heights so I don't really do the whole multi-pitch thing yet.

I would really like to do that untradable line someday but I'm new to the kloof and I've sent one thing there so have alot left, next though will be Terminator and then Twilight floozy for its pure beauty. I however hardly find psych for on balance climbing and thus will really love to be able to try climb the untradable line but if we not allowed to bolt just one bolt in the roof, i'll con my friends into carrying in a few boulder pads, similar to Black karma, low crux about 4m off the ground and then top out easy, so its not the biggest issue:)

Thanks for the comments and I believe i will someday really enjoy trad climbing, but i would also love to see trad climbers respect routes that cant be traded to be bolted, guess thats the long battle between climbers, but i hate politics and i love climbing so i dont want to get involved, if u cant bolt something, boulder it:D
That just means you have to harden up, climb it on gear and get to tell the ballies what's what

To the "old ballies": There is a generation of kids out there that are climbing what you can only dream of and there goals are in your trad kloofs, if we have to trad, we will learn and take what sporties/tradies are to scared to take:)

Fern wednesday, Cederberg thursday, boven friday, join us:D

eT (I'd really appreciate climbing with you when you not working:)

Re: Black Karma

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:27 am
by mokganjetsi
sjoe, that is a mouthful..... i'm pretty much a trad-bottom-feeder but i've come to realise that for true soul-climbing you have to rack up. virgin rock remains virgin only once; when the bolts go in the game is over - we should always err on the side of natural.

pity about choss. but i'm sure it will open again and there are still some sport crags to be discovered & developed.

and i'm sure there's some old ballies that would love to see the cocky kids get sh!t scared on some of the hard man test pieces.... so, once you've done some of the hard lines at Table Mountain & Tafelberg; done something properly big at Yellowwood (or how about Ocean's of Fear :eye: ); then you will be saluted by the old guard. a good challenge and good on you for giving it a go :thumleft:

Re: Black Karma

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:45 am
by Hector
Great to see the young guns blazing in the kloofs! Well done lads.

Wes, domination is a strong word. Here's a tick list. Do these routes and maybe you can start to talk. Warm ups: Crystal Fire, Dogstyle, Accipiter, Just Hot, Circuitbreaker. Harder: Agonizing Hands, Suicide, Soul Crusher, Alchemy, Project 22, Reason Run Dry, Physical Graffiti, Glory Road, The Final Cut, Sea of Madness. Nails: Twist and Shout, Rhythm of Youth, Rivers of Rain. :twisted:. I'll happily give you a catch on any of these.

Ebert, I'm afraid there's zero chance of bolting any lines in the kloofs. I'd feel obliged to come chop them. BUT I'm more than happy to show you guys a few projects and ideas I have for new hard trad routes in the kloofs. Believe me, there's plenty of stuff still to do.

Re: Black Karma

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:54 am
by Forket
That sounds amazing, long tick list of things ive never heard of sweet:) are they all in cedarberg or at least close by, the thing with things like oceans of fear and the really famous lines on TM and the area is that we live in Pretoria, i hardly get to trip far and a trip like i did in December to montagu and oudtshoorn i had to sacrifice buying new shoes, so till we old and got our own money, going that far is just not optional:(

Not bolting in the kloofs are fine, a crashpad and one piece of gear might do the job but we will see and we keen to see these projects, such a beautiful place, ill go there very day if i could:)

Re: Black Karma

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:15 am
by Hector
Dude, you've barely scratched the surface. All the routes on the list are within 1h30 drive from pta. I'll be in one of the kloofs on sat/sunday. Get in touch via Wes.

Re: Black Karma

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:26 am
by shorti
By the looks of it, you haven't seen the whole of Cedarberg kloof. Cedarberg kloof itself is just a small part of it. Basically you have played in the little tide pools, so to speak. The routes you and I have mentioned are not at all "uber classics". The ones Hector mentioned are more of the famous and or notorious routes. There are many many more.

I know and understand how you feel, but remember, you are not the first. Not the first to go into the Magalies neither the first young gun looking to show the old ballies how it's done. The old ballies have done the same. It's al good sports and nothing wrong with enthusiasm. Take your time, see everything, there's a lot to take in. Fall in love with the place, you'll soon see what we are talking about. You'll hopefully understand why we love the place, and maybe you'll feel the same way about it.

You talk about respect. That's what we do, in a nutshell. All the trad climbers know what sport climbing is about, "we" invented it. I'm not going to delve to deep into it, but in short, there is nothing wrong with your statement, that is why there were routes bolted in the first place. The idea is fair enough I suppose, but the problems that come with it, are just not worth it.

Unclimbed lines; hmmm, we should be careful saying such things. Climbers have been in the Magalies for many many years. If you are talking about the same face I'm thinking of, then there is an old piton on it... Remember the great climbers have all been there at some stage. Some names you won't recognise, others you will. All have seen what you have seen. To sum it up, the Magalies has a history that will (and has) fill many books. The Magalies is the playground, the big stuff is in the North and in the Cape Mountains.

I hope you have many happy years of climbing in the Magalies, hopefully I'll see you around.

Nice video Pierre, thanks!

Re: Black Karma

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:52 am
by brianweaver
Twist and Shout! Ah! There is one that is totally amazing. It's a shame that the 1st and 3rd pitches are so easy. Also, try not to get your rope stuck when you're abbing down, the scramble in from the top is a really nail biter!!! Best thing about T&S is the absolutely amazing gear, not to mention the stuck nut in the crux. Our cam kept popping when we fell in the crux but the nut held firm and true...

Needs a 4th ascent...

Re: Black Karma

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:08 pm
by Forket
:-) not looking to prove anythng to any old guy, just l0oking 2 climb:-)eT