Another Question

[Drifter]

Are there any other reasons whey a steel or stainless steel carabeaners aren't used for rock climbing besides that they are heavier than aluninium carabeaners and that they hurt more if they are dropped on your head.

[Marshall]

Rated SS crabs are often more expensive. SS crabs often have sharp edges.

[mkboy]

Drifter,

You are the only guy i know who can weld/woodwork and type at the same time, you know that?

[Drifter]

Thanks for the feedback.

[grrr]

oh let me guess - youve found some really cheap steel c a r a b i n e r s to match your hardhat

[Drifter]

If Marshall didn't point out that Steel carabeaners had sharp edges, as I didn't know they did because we tie directly into our full body industrial harnesses we don't use carabeaners on site as we don't abseil on site, I would of bought a steel carabeaner for climbing as steel is stronger than aluminium.

[Drifter]

If I can find something which stronger I will use it. I have got a nylon strap which I am going to use as a second anchor for a safety rope at Lower Silvermine when someone who is with me is going to abseil and there is no one at the bottom to hold the rope for them in case they have to let go the rope themselves.

If I start trad climbing this nylon strap will also come in useful if I am top of an easy climb and there is a big enough tree to anchor to as well.

[Drifter]

Chains or shackles you see used at the top of climbs as anchors and 8mm bolts you use to bolt sports climbs with nuts at the end weren't originally manufactured for climbing doesn't mean they can't be used for climbing.

[Avatar]

I would of bought a steel carabeaner for climbing as steel is stronger than aluminium.

Just as a point of interest, I have a bunch of steel "D" screw-gate 'biners from an industrial rope access rig I have, and they're rated at 25Kn, but my pear-shaped aluminium screw-gate is rated at 28Kn.

Different design allows for greater loading?

--A

[mkboy]

Drifter,

You might have a point there that certain climbing equipment and bolts were adapted from existing stuff used for other purposes BUT the key word here is A D A P T E D.

You wouldnt weld with your mother's kitchen apron and a pair of cheap sunglasses on would you?

why are you so hell-bent on finding cheaper/alternative equipment for climbing when all you are doing is re-inventing the wheel and putting yourself AND others in danger?

[Justin]

Avatar,
Yes, shape does make a difference. The other factor is the width of the carabiner (by this I mean the circumference of the metal --> thicker = stronger).
In my limited industrial experience 28kn is not that strong for an industrial biner (Petzl's pear shape rates at 40kn (long axis))

Drifter,
When carrying out industrial access there are standards (very strict ones). These are in place mostly for safety reasons. Using industrial gear for climbing should generally be ok, but please stay away from the hardware store
In the 80's this was the source of a lot of gear (because nothing else was available)
Get yourself offshore, earn some $$'s and when you get back buy a complete rack (it'll be lighter too)

[Hector]

Personally I prefer well-design aluminium wiregates cos they are light and rack easier. I prefer well-designed skinny ropes cos they're light and they handle easier. I prefer the new beal skinny slings cos they're light. I prefer a well fitted light weight helmet so I can still see where the @#$& I'm going. The boys at BD actually do put some thought into their kit - and it works. Anyway, good luck with that nylon strap. Maybe you can use a sling instead of the seatbelt in your car...

[JonoJ]

They work just as well, and probably plenty strong enough..... mainly the weight issue I guess.

I have a couple of steel screwgates, which I got, umm sponsored shall we say, off a rope access job years ago. Use 'em on climbs because I'm too much of a cheapskate to by modern gear.....and I like the funny looks I get when I hand one with an ATC attached to any new belay-bud! ....

... Mind you they've proved themselves useful in weighing down marginal small nuts to help prevent rope-drag lifting them out of their placements.

[Avatar]

Avatar,
Yes, shape does make a difference. The other factor is the width of the carabiner (by this I mean the circumference of the metal --> thicker = stronger).
In my limited industrial experience 28kn is not that strong for an industrial biner (Petzl's pear shape rates at 40kn (long axis))

Thanks. I'll have to check the rig, there's a Petzl pear-shape on the full body harness and you've made me curious. (I have no industrial experience at all, two rigs were given to me, one used, one brand new, by a friend who got them when his employers liquidated. ) The only thing I use those steel 'biners for is anchoring a top-rope.

--A

[Drifter]

Thank you all for the advice!

[JohnF]

25kN is plenty strong for personal industrial use. The safety factor 5:1 is what counts. 40kN + is typically for rescue where more than one person is involved (rescuer + patient)
The main reason steel biners are used in industry is because they are cheaper (about half price) and you need plenty of them, plus they are tougher (friction resistant) - and weight of the gear is not a consideration because you are always aiding.

[Avatar]

Yeah, they weigh a ton once you've got more than just one or two.

Anyway, checked that other 'biner for interests sake, turns out its not pear-shaped after all, it's an aluminium Petzl Am'D, rated at 28Kn just like the aluminum pear-shape.

--A