Which half ropes for trad?

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jabiru
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Which half ropes for trad?

Post by jabiru » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:33 pm

I'm in the market for trad half ropes and I'm currently considering either the Mammut Genesis 8.5mm or the Petzl Salsa 8.2mm ropes. If anyone on the forum has experience with either of the ropes in question I'd really appreciate your opinion and feedback. If there are any other half ropes that forum members have good experience with and can recommend I'd like to hear from you.

legendarry
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by legendarry » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:43 pm

I've got the Petzl Ropes. Those babies are amazing. They've done everything I needed of them.

They're light, handle very smoothly, everyone who uses a BD Guide moan that they're too slippery when abbing... I think you should just man up ;)

The only drawback is that they are fluffy near the ends now. But they are my first set of ropes (beginners aren't the easiest on ropes) and they have been dragged through bushes etc.

One thing, 60m ropes are overkill. 50 will serve you adequately on TM and then you don't need to lug that extra 20m of rope around.

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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by Nic Le Maitre » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:54 pm

But you can chop 10m off the 60m ropes and have serviceable 50m ropes still.

60m ropes get you from the top Africa Corner abseil to Africa ledge in two abseils, and from the Staircase abseil to Fountain in one.
Happy climbing
Nic

PeterHS
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by PeterHS » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:22 pm

legendarry wrote:I've got the Petzl Ropes. Those babies are amazing. They've done everything I needed of them.

They're light, handle very smoothly, everyone who uses a BD Guide moan that they're too slippery when abbing... I think you should just man up ;)

The only drawback is that they are fluffy near the ends now. But they are my first set of ropes (beginners aren't the easiest on ropes) and they have been dragged through bushes etc.

One thing, 60m ropes are overkill. 50 will serve you adequately on TM and then you don't need to lug that extra 20m of rope around.
Thanks for this thread. I shall watch with interest. I agree with Nic too.

Just a comment on rope slipperiness. I read just today of a fatality when 'slippery' ropes were joined for abseil/repel. A flat 8 was used and with short tails without stoppers. Use the EDK and long tails. Be extremely vigilant if your ropes are slippery and you need join them for abseil/rapel. Peter
Last edited by PeterHS on Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

hendriks
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by hendriks » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:11 am

PeterHS wrote: Just a comment on rope slipperiness. I read just today of a fatality when 'slippery' ropes were joined for abseil/repel. A figure 8 was used and with short tails without stoppers. Use the EDK and long tails. Be extremely vigilant if your ropes are slippery and you need join them for abseil/rapel. Peter
Should be noted it was a "Flat8" that failed. A fig8 bend would have been fine, although more bulky.


On the ropes, I agree with Nic, go 60m. It makes life easier when you have to get off something/rap into somewhere

mokganjetsi
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by mokganjetsi » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:37 am

mammut genesis vs petzl salsa is not a straight comparison - they are different in design & price

the mammut will give you a slightly heavier, stiffer rope but arguably the most durable rope on the market. if i was guaranteed to take a whipper on some dodgy terrain there's no other rope i'd rather tie into (disclaimer: currently climbing on beals).

just some tips on buying a rope:
compare weight; not diameter (there isn't consistency between manufacturers on how diam is measured)
compare number of falls & impact force (higher falls & impact force indicates a longer lasting & stiffer rope).
compare sheath mass / percentage. useful indicator of likely durability.
manufacturer's reputation & user reviews (looove the interwebs)
length - ease of abseiling vs weight. as mentioned above, there are a few abseils on TM that you can do 2 pitches on 60m ropes. there is the rare occasion that you may want to link pitches that will be longer than 50m. shorter ropes saves time & effort with rope pulling & coiling.
color only matters if you're a girl :wink: just make sure its sufficiently differentiated.

for me the trend to skinnier ropes is a bit overkill; not long ago the norm for half ropes was 9mm. that said, i'm a big guy so fatter ropes makes me feel more comfortable.....

oh, and most new ropes feels a bit slippery - it will fluff out soon enough. just make sure you use the best knot (why anyone would ab on a knot other than the simple overhand is beyond me...)

good luck!

PeterHS
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by PeterHS » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:53 am

hendriks wrote:
PeterHS wrote: Just a comment on rope slipperiness. I read just today of a fatality when 'slippery' ropes were joined for abseil/repel. A figure 8 was used and with short tails without stoppers. Use the EDK and long tails. Be extremely vigilant if your ropes are slippery and you need join them for abseil/rapel. Peter
Should be noted it was a "Flat8" that failed. A fig8 bend would have been fine, although more bulky.


On the ropes, I agree with Nic, go 60m. It makes life easier when you have to get off something/rap into somewhere
Hendriks, thanks for the correction. I have amended :). P

hendriks
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by hendriks » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:04 am

PeterHS wrote:
hendriks wrote:
PeterHS wrote: Just a comment on rope slipperiness. I read just today of a fatality when 'slippery' ropes were joined for abseil/repel. A figure 8 was used and with short tails without stoppers. Use the EDK and long tails. Be extremely vigilant if your ropes are slippery and you need join them for abseil/rapel. Peter
Should be noted it was a "Flat8" that failed. A fig8 bend would have been fine, although more bulky.


On the ropes, I agree with Nic, go 60m. It makes life easier when you have to get off something/rap into somewhere
Hendriks, thanks for the correction. I have amended :). P
If I want to be even more pedantic it should read "Flat fig8 bend"(Dangerous) and "Rethreaded fig8 bend/Flemish bend"(Safe).

PeterHS
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by PeterHS » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:23 am

hendriks wrote:
PeterHS wrote:
hendriks wrote:
If I want to be even more pedantic it should read "Flat fig8 bend"(Dangerous) and "Rethreaded fig8 bend/Flemish bend"(Safe).
Pedantic is good - and safer!

This was the article for those interested
http://www.rockandice.com/climbing-acci ... usly-fails

My apologies to the OP for hi-jacking the thread - back to the topic in hand .......

P

yvettecloete
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by yvettecloete » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:20 am

I'm a big fan of the Bluewater Excellence 8.4mm (double dry) halfropes that I use. Great handling.
And easy to distinguish between the red and blue (although all the men I climb with seem to call it green... :roll: )

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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by Nic Le Maitre » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:32 am

Image

That's blue in the picture at least...
Happy climbing
Nic

Old Smelly
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by Old Smelly » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:08 pm

Men are a bad case for colour blindness - 1 in 12, as compared to women 1 in 200.... So yes I always agree with my partner what colour we are calling the rope before I leave the ground...

Ironically I don't think it quite explains bad fashion sense...(refer article yesterday - actually ask GQ seeing as how they seem to have no clue about real climbers...)

Interesting though
http://www.colourblindawareness.org/colour-blindness/
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

BAbycoat
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by BAbycoat » Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:40 pm

That's definitely a shade of Cyan - perhaps Keppel ... or Verdigris?

You can be sure that "Slack on Turquoise" won't be confused with any of the other palookas on The Ledge climbing with Red, Blue or Green. :jocolor:

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mountainmailorder
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by mountainmailorder » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:11 pm

Hi Jabiru, I have both the Petzl Salsa 8.2mm and the Mammut Genesis 8.5mm available on Mountain Mail Order :thumright

I personally find the Genesis to be slightly stiffer and has coarser texture to its sheath.
The main factor the swings me towards the Genesis is the number of falls it can take (12-13) where the Salsa only has 9.

Here are two links for both ropes:
Mammut Genesis: https://www.mountainmailorder.co.za/ind ... uctId=2516
Petzl Salsa:https://www.mountainmailorder.co.za/ind ... uctId=2939

Don't forget if you are a MCSA member or CityROCK member you can get 10% discount on the ropes.

You can contact me at info@mountainmailorder.co.za

PeterHS
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by PeterHS » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:17 pm

BAbycoat wrote:That's definitely a shade of Cyan - perhaps Keppel ... or Verdigris?

You can be sure that "Slack on Turquoise" won't be confused with any of the other palookas on The Ledge climbing with Red, Blue or Green. :jocolor:
Awesome - how men and women see colours! Peter
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Old Smelly
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by Old Smelly » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:03 am

My rope is definitely "Flora"! Just can't imagine shouting that across the valley....
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by Nic Le Maitre » Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:46 am

What is "Seam Foam"?

And it is surely blue and not green.

There is a reason that men and women perceive colours differently, women have more colour receptors than men.
Happy climbing
Nic

Hippolyta
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by Hippolyta » Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:59 pm

mokganjetsi wrote: just some tips on buying a rope:
compare weight; not diameter (there isn't consistency between manufacturers on how diam is measured)
compare number of falls & impact force (higher falls & impact force indicates a longer lasting & stiffer rope).
compare sheath mass / percentage. useful indicator of likely durability.
manufacturer's reputation & user reviews (looove the interwebs)
length - ease of abseiling vs weight. as mentioned above, there are a few abseils on TM that you can do 2 pitches on 60m ropes. there is the rare occasion that you may want to link pitches that will be longer than 50m. shorter ropes saves time & effort with rope pulling & coiling.
color only matters if you're a girl :wink: just make sure its sufficiently differentiated.
Whew it's a good thing that we girls don't have to worry about the technical stuff, as long as the colour is right. Really Guys? :shock:

We use the Mammut Phoenix, blue and orange (which we call red - it's just so confusing).

Old Smelly
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by Old Smelly » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:17 pm

But Hippolyta surely your rope should be "Carnation" - to match your shoes and harness?

But Blue and Orange? How did you choose it? Surely not because it's because of the number of UIAA Falls? or it's diameter? Mind you it actually looks like it does well on the number of falls...

Most climbers I know either choose a rope because of it's specs or it's price but I must admit sometimes colour is a factor...

Still there is nothing wrong with a "Bubblegum" coloured rope...as long as it does the job...
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

PeterHS
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by PeterHS » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:27 pm

Again, apologies to the thread OP. I just couldn't resist! Mine are red and blue - or maraschino and teal but I'm not a girl. P

Hippolyta
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by Hippolyta » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:46 pm

Ok, I confess my ropes are seam foam and tangerine. Although every time I call "Clipping on Tangerine" my male partner just hears take or tight. I think it's because men never listen :lol:

BAbycoat
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by BAbycoat » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:08 pm

Regarding the OP's question, Mountain Tools has a great rope comparison table. Based on the table, the Mammut is lighter and more durable. (Being slightly thicker, it will also be easier to control through an ATC).

Now can we please get back to the colourful conversations?

mokganjetsi
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by mokganjetsi » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:24 am

BAbycoat wrote: Based on the table, the Mammut is lighter
weight doesn't show on the table. think the Salsa is 2g /m lighter i.e. 120g per rope

Old Smelly
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by Old Smelly » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:29 am

Gotta love Mountain Tools.

Sorry that your partner does not hear you Hippolyta - maybe he just isn't listening...

Ok maybe you should agree as to what words you are going to use when on the ground - just like agreeing on the rope colour...

Communication is important when climbing - and yes a sharp kick is not quite the communication required! :jocolor:
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by Nic Le Maitre » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:58 am

The "wt" column is weight, probably g/m
Happy climbing
Nic

mokganjetsi
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by mokganjetsi » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:50 pm

ah.... just looked at the genesis specs and the "wt" is wrong - should be 47. probably finger error. otherwise kiff table!

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Gustav
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by Gustav » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:00 pm

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BAbycoat
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by BAbycoat » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:19 pm

... but it's beal, which means miles of static and dynamic eeeeeeeeelongaaaaaaaation.

Personal preference, but not my cup of tea.

Garron
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by Garron » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:46 am

The nicest rope I've climbed on is a Beal Joker 9.1 this can be used as a single or a half rope.
The Mammut 8.2 (and smaller) dry ropes are too skinny and it would be difficult to hold a high fall factor on a belay plate.
I climb on a Roca 8.9 rope which has been good.

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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Which half ropes for trad?

Post by Nic Le Maitre » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:13 am

Beal Jokers are great ropes for hard sport sends where every gram counts. They suck as half ropes, I've owned two. Waaaaaaaaaaaaay too heavy. Buy dedicated ropes for trad and have a separate sport rope as well.
Happy climbing
Nic

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