Trance Dance - New grade

New Areas. New routes. Retrobolting. Add-ons. Re-grading. etc.
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MalcolmG
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Real Name: Malcolm Gowans

Trance Dance - New grade

Post by MalcolmG » Tue May 10, 2016 9:32 pm

Has anyone climbed Trance Dance at Silvermine Main crag recently?

I'd heard a hold had broken off so I decided to give it a try last Friday.
That rock on move, with the small pocket now feels super hard. It was pretty miserable conditions so I didn't hang around to work that move out , plus I've become old and unfit.

Has anyone managed to climb it with the right hand crimp gone?
Grade sugestion?

Thanks
M

mokganjetsi
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Re: Trance Dance - New grade

Post by mokganjetsi » Wed May 11, 2016 6:45 am

i have seen a few (strong) guys on it - nobody managed to do the move. mark berry said something like "28" after aiding on the bolt.
i'm thinking we should manufacture a hold there; something minimalist that resembles a crimp which will keep the grade consistent. it could be a **** 23 or a ** 28 (or thereabouts)?

vinceB
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Re: Trance Dance - New grade

Post by vinceB » Wed May 11, 2016 8:20 am

I think we should think twice before creating a new hold up there. There's so rush after all... I'm planning on going there and trying this new version of trance dance in a few weeks time.

Will let you know about the possible grade!

mokganjetsi
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Re: Trance Dance - New grade

Post by mokganjetsi » Wed May 11, 2016 9:16 am

i'll wait for feedback & especially malcolm's view of this, but i think it deserves special consideration - this is not a hold breaking off that changes the grade / character of the route slightly; it changed the route from being the only quality line between the great 22's and hard 24/25's at the crag to something in the high 20's. the line is now designated to be climbed only by (in the SA context) strong climbers who I don't think will bother to do it - we'll effectively lose one of the cooler routes just because we don't want to manufacture a small crimp :?

Richard
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Re: Trance Dance - New grade

Post by Richard » Wed May 11, 2016 10:13 am

Glad to hear others have found the move "troublesome". Thought I'd just got old and fat when I got there to find the crimp a tad smaller than I recalled.
Not sure what the best solution is, but it's not like Silvermine doesn't already have a few alterations.

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Xenomorph
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Re: Trance Dance - New grade

Post by Xenomorph » Thu May 12, 2016 7:45 am

I'm not opposed Willem's suggestion. It will keep the grade of the route consistent.
One of the suggested reasons it broke off was the out of ordinary hot season we have just had.
:cyclops:

vinceB
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Re: Trance Dance - New grade

Post by vinceB » Thu May 12, 2016 9:27 am

I think you are biased because you're familiar with the route. Let's see if this newly born "28" is not a 5 star one. What if it is a 5 star 28? We don't have many of these around in the Cape Peninsula.
mokganjetsi wrote:the line is now designated to be climbed only by (in the SA context) strong climbers who I don't think will bother to do it - we'll effectively lose one of the cooler routes just because we don't want to manufacture a small crimp :?
The problem with chipping is that it's hard to create "exceptions" because you don't really know where to draw the line. Trance Dance used to be like this.
But, what about a new line that can't be freed at a reasonable grade? Would chipping a pocket be OK because it's "just" about chipping a single one pocket? What about "Benita" or "Taste the Pain" in Montagu? Shall we fix these routes too as the key holds have broken off and might not be even climbable?

My point is the following. In a lot of previous discussions, issues of "not scarring the rock", "chalk is ruining my pleasure", "please do not drill" were being brought up. And here, we are talking about drilling to enlarge something. Sounds a bit... paradoxical.

I'm not against chipping stuff. Seven is a good route and was heavily chipped. But, for me, the bottom line is that if a climb can still be climbed free, then so be it.

mokganjetsi
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Re: Trance Dance - New grade

Post by mokganjetsi » Thu May 12, 2016 9:53 am

vinceB wrote:Let's see if this newly born "28" is not a 5 star one.
vince the route is 22ish with a single 28ish move on a slab. it will never be more than 3 stars at the grade. it was 4 stars at 23.

manufacturing a single crimp to replace a broken hold on an existing & well climbed route is in my mind a fairly solid and safe boundary - i do not see why we could / should enter the blurry terrain of "where do you draw the line?". the same could be asked of bolting and the community seems to mostly stay within reason.

generally i'm fundamentally opposed to altering the rock but is a worthy exception? perhaps you should go climb it as is and then let us know what you think :thumleft:

MalcolmG
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Re: Trance Dance - New grade

Post by MalcolmG » Thu May 12, 2016 12:01 pm

Thanks for the feedback guys!

It seems that, according to this thread on this forum, no one has yet been able climb it free.
I think it best to wait to hear what others have said before we make any decision.

However that said, I have no problem gluing on a replica of the hold to simulate what was there before. (Crallen might even remember where he put the old one :-)
Note VinvB -This is not chipping.
I'm pretty crafty with glue and have done this before both at Hellfire and a lesser known crag in the Hex where a hold was loose.
On both occasions, it would take a well trained eye to spot the handy work.

As Richard said, Silvermine has had this before and it's a sport crag after all.
If one wants to be puritanical I think we should have not bolted in the first place.

Unfortunately VinveB having a route with one 28 move will not make it a five star 28.
And there are a few five star 28 in the Peninsula.

Lastly, As the person who put in the work to open this route, I'm aware that as soon as the route has been climbed by others it becomes their route as well. I do not have sole right to change the route as I see fit. However I do feel a sense of responsibility towards keeping the routes I've opened safe and in good order.

chrisb
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Re: Trance Dance - New grade

Post by chrisb » Fri May 13, 2016 6:30 pm

Hi everyone,

I have been saving trance dance for the onsite for a couple of months now, and when I heard a hold had broken off I was even more intrigued.

I heard that Andy Davies had sent it recently without the old hold, so I thought I would try it as well.

I went there this afternoon with Diego Quroga (from Columbia) to try it and I managed to onsight it. Diego also sent the route on his 2nd go. We both thought that the route felt like a 25. I am about 6'1 and quite flexible whereas Diego is about 5'10 and quite strong. We both managed to do the crux part with completely different beta.

I never climbed trance dance before the hold broke off, so I can't really compare it to how it used to be, but I can assure you that the route goes for tall people and for short people.

The reason I'm writing this is because I would like to advocate that the route stays as it is. As it is, it feels like a 4 star 25 with some solid (but really fun!) 24ish crux moves below the roof.

Just my two cents :thumleft:

Peace,

Chris Barker

mokganjetsi
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Re: Trance Dance - New grade

Post by mokganjetsi » Fri May 13, 2016 9:40 pm

mmmmm so defintely not 28 :wink: thanks for the feedback - will go check it out sometime

chrisb
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Re: Trance Dance - New grade

Post by chrisb » Sun May 15, 2016 5:53 pm

Ok, I just spoke with Andy and he said he sent it a couple of weeks ago (before me) and also felt it was a 25. That's three of us now who've all sent it and independently suggested 25.

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XMod
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Re: Trance Dance - New grade

Post by XMod » Thu May 19, 2016 8:58 pm

Nooit Mallie leave the route as is - Ive also glued before and its a crap way of doing things - let the rock morph as it wants to - 25 is accessible enough of a grade. Glueing will just degrade the value of the route drastically - dont do it.

MalcolmG
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Re: Trance Dance - New grade

Post by MalcolmG » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:17 pm

Thanks for the feedback ChrisB.

Trance Dance will then stay as is :thumright

Intrestingly the hold has broken off, on the moves below the roof.
chrisb wrote:
it feels like a 4 star 25 with some solid (but really fun!) 24ish crux moves below the roof.

Peace,

Chris Barker
I know we are splitting hairs here but where is the 25 crux then?

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