Bolting glue

Ask. Answer. Discuss. Any bolting related issues.
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ken4ord
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Location: Kigali, Rwanda
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Bolting glue

Postby ken4ord » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:34 am

What are your Hilti glue reccomendations for bolting. I have heard that C-100 is good to use, but when I was on the Hilti web page I could not find it and it was not in the catalog of the Hilti distributor here in Kigali, Rwanda.

Glue seem the best option for me here since threaded bolts would probably be removed by bored kids and they are 51 Rand a piece. I was thinking of rebar staples, what are your thoughts? It is something I could have manufactured here and inexpensive. My other option is to buy glavanize cast eye bolts. I have sort of limited resources available here.

Any help and suggestion gereatly appreciated.

Andy Davies
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:37 pm

Simple & Safe

Postby Andy Davies » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:11 pm

The MCSA / Anchor Replacment Fund does not recommend glue-ins - other than for trained proffesionals. And you can't use glu-ins to bolt steep routes. You can get good express anchors from Hilti (HSA) and Fischer (FBN) which esentially are stud anchors. If you want to make sure little fvckers don't nick your hangers then use a spring washer with some loctite.
AndyDavies

Marshall
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:09 am

Postby Marshall » Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:54 am

'staples' have issues. But if you had too use staples or 'U' bolts; make the legs as long as posible, & as wide apart as posible. That is: the bend should not be tight. Roughen up the legs. You will need lots of power as each bolt requires 2 holes. Clean the holes well. Make sure your glue has not expired.

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ken4ord
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Location: Kigali, Rwanda
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Postby ken4ord » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:55 am

I think I would prefer to use mechanical bolts, but because I am in Rwanda, I have access to the bolts, but not the hangers. They are extremely expensive, so that is why I am looking into all my options. Thanks for the tip on locktight and spring washers.

I would still like to know which glue from Hilti people use for glue in bolts?

Just trying to look at all my options that I have here.

Cheers.

Grigri
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:49 pm

Postby Grigri » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:27 pm

mechanical stud anchors are by far the easiest to place properly and thus create a safe anchor. You might be able to order hangers from Derek Marshall. PM 'Marshall' who posted above.

josef-sa
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Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:11 am
Location: Austria

bolting glue

Postby josef-sa » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:04 am

a try to answer the question of the bolting glue:
please consider my english! (I am not a native speaker)
In Europe we recommend to use glued in bolts whenever it is possible!
the durability is much better than express anchors.
But as Andy says, it is very important to do the correct procedure:
after drilling the hole to clean proper by using a brush and blowing out
the dust with a bellows. Injecting the glue, placing the bolt and not touching for the time while it hardens.
There are many products. Mostly I use HILTI HIT HY150 or RE500,
FISCHER FIS VS 100P, any type of two component epoxy glue,
UPAT UKA3 or UMV (both are glass-cartridges with the 2 components
inside). For HILTI You need a \"gun\" for injection (that means costs and weight), for Fischer nothing, so it is cheaper and less weight, when working. The cartridge contains a screw-cylinder for injecting the glue
into the hole. The advantage of the glass-cartridges of UPAT or FISCHER
is that you have no hurry,when working, they last for years when storing
and the hardening is extremely fast - so You can load the anchor shortly after placing!!
Bolts I buy from AustriAlpin office@austrialpin.at , Petzl (very expensive) or express-anchors from Fischer or HILTI. Hangers from Austrialpin.
If You have anymore question please contact me. Josef
Josef Mayer, Austria

Marshall
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:09 am

Postby Marshall » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:49 am

Hey Ken

another option is to use the Australian carrot bolt with a removable / keyhole type hanger. There can't be that many climbers in Rwanda. This would be a way cheaper option.

DaveD
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:36 am

Postby DaveD » Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:14 pm

When bying Epoxy from a hardware store, make sure it is a \"Structural Grade\" Epoxy. \"SIKA\" and \"ABE\" make such epoxys, as well as the above companys, but you will need to measure and mix them manually. Then stuff them into the hole. This is very messy, but if done correctly can produce a safe anchor.

What is the climbing like in Rowanda? :D
Feel the Qui

Andy Davies
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:37 pm

Unacceptable Bolting

Postby Andy Davies » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:04 pm

DaveD your proposal to mix glue seperately and then stuff it in the hole is unacceptable for this kind of application so please do not recommend it, nor do it. Climbing is a potentialy dangerous sport, so using a system that is not 100% safe in order to save a few cents could lead to someone getting seriously hurt or killed.

Please feel free to contact me personally if you would like to discuss this - I prefer not to have in-depth technical discussions on forums like this.
AndyDavies

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ken4ord
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Location: Kigali, Rwanda
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Postby ken4ord » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:51 am

Thanks for the feed back so far, especially to josef-sa, since he was the only one who truly got around to answering my question about Hilti glues for bolting purposes. Also to Andy for opening up discussiona and offering suggestions about the hanger removal prevention.

I have access to Hilti goods and that is it here so that is why my question was geared around Hilti. I could have stuff imported in, but damn with cost to send a letter through a courier being at $60 USD, I can't imagine what it would cost to have hanger and/or bolts shipped in, then figure in a 16% VAT, with prices like that you might well bend me over and call me Shirley.

As for climbing Rwanda, well it is getting better all the time thanks to me a few other who climb here. I am working on a guidebook (updating the last one that was written up in 91) that will be an ongoing project until I leave. I will make electronic so that it can get distributed easily. The rock quality varies from this compressed clay shit that falkes off (just one area) to good quality granite. It's been fun.


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