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 Post subject: Bolts for sale, cheap!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:11 am
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Real Name: Rhonda
hey there, we have finished our African journey, and I am now in Capetown tying up loose ends. One of them is I have a giant box of 10 and 12 ml bolts, mostly 12. I would like to sell them very cheaply to climbers in the area, and I have 2 days to do it. I am camping at Zandvlei campsite out in Muizenberg, and can be available to pick up the bolts for the next couple of days. Spread the word!!!
Call Rhonda
0718470063
thanks!
getouttheretoo@gmail.com


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:20 am 
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Hi Rhonda,

A few questions: How many bolts do you have? What brand/model are they (they should be cold rolled).

Price?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:30 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:31 am
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Location: Montagu
Real Name: Justin Lawson
Straight off the bat I strongly advise against buying these bolts unless you are using them for non climbing related purposes.

They will most likely not be up to the standards that we have set in SA. If you put in the wrong bolts and they break after a couple of years and someone is hurt or killed there could be repercussions to the bolter for not using the correct equipment.

By all means have them checked out by a professional, but let the buyer beware!!!
Also we do not use 12mm bolts in SA (you will have problems attaching hangers).

Sorry about this Rhonda, but we have had numerous bolt failures in the Western Cape.
See Anchor Replacement Fund for details.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:57 am 
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Hold up there Justin :wink: we first need to confirm what type of bolts they are...

Perhaps they could post a close-up pic of the bolts for a start?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:01 am 
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Real Name: Justin Lawson
Justin wrote:
strongly advise against buying these bolts...

By all means have them checked out by a professional, but let the buyer beware!!!


I didn't write them off completely, just have them checked out :)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:49 pm
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Location: Waterval Boven
I called her, they are Hilti's and I am taking some 10mm's off her...

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:15 am 
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Real Name: Justin Lawson
Do they have a 'C' on the back ? Not that it matters as much since you're not close to the coast :)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:41 am 
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Quote:
If you put in the wrong bolts and they break after a couple of years and someone is hurt or killed there could be repercussions to the bolter for not using the correct equipment.


Pardon the hijack here, but what utter rubbish. Climbing is a "do at your own risk" sport. There is no formal, legally approved standard for bolts, only knowledge we've accumulated from years of trial and error. While I'm all for things being as safe as possible, by your statement I'd consider every single bolt to have a potential lawsuit attached to it, because we all know the best, safest bolt is a titanium glue in, and nobody here is using them.
Climbers need to be prudent and aware of the odds, and thus never ever lower off a single bolt or top anchor. Redundancy is always key in climbing. While I agree it would be a terrible thing for someone to get hurt on one of my routes, it certainly doesn't warrant legal action, since there is no legislative approved standard. If you can prove me otherwise, please PM me this info or provide it here, as I will be chopping every single bolt I've ever dropped in a hole.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:55 pm
Posts: 165
@ 9ja
Justin mentioned ''serious repercussions'', he said nothing of a lawsuit.
So for example, SOMEONE BREAKING YOUR LEGS for you placing didgy bolts would be classified as serious repercussions in my book.
:shock:
But i get your point


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:05 am
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So bolters stand to be assaulted should their bolts fail?

Hey maybe you can go and break the legs of every bolter who placed a hardware store chain anchor, or used a standard RAWL bolt, or an 8mm bolt instead of a 10, or placed an expansion bolt in sandstone. These are all dodgy bolting practices.

Speak real terms friend. Use common sense.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:13 pm 
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Like I said.....''I get your point''-maybe you missed that.
let's move on, happy holidays and all that.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:39 pm 
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@9ja: Stop being so dramatic - the MCSA and all other parties have for the last few years suggested a standard that should be followed for all future bolting - if you NOW choose to ignore those suggestions and use inferior quality material to open a route resulting in injury, then yes there will be a lot of angry climbers.

Most bolters (myself included) and crags have used so called 'dodgy' bolts in the past, but NEW rules and guidelines have now been suggested (repeatedly), so unless you expect no one else but yourself to climb your route, show us all a little respect and only use the recommended bolts for opening NEW routes.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:46 pm 
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Location: Waterval Boven
Quote:
Do they have a 'C' on the back ? Not that it matters as much since you're not close to the coast :)

Uhm ... which is the front & which is the back? :lol:

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013 257 0363
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:05 am
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@Stu: please link me to these guidelines, with test data if possible.

Bottom line though is that there is no legislation set up around bolting in the hills, thus I don't see how there can be any legal repercussions for injuries arising from failures. That is all I was saying. It's climb at your own risk. This is why trad is great. anyway


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:34 pm 
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Location: Durban, South Africa
Real Name: Scott Sinclair
Gustav wrote:
Quote:
Do they have a 'C' on the back ? Not that it matters as much since you're not close to the coast :)

Uhm ... which is the front & which is the back? :lol:

The back is the bit thats in the front once you've placed the bolt. Duh!!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:13 pm 
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9ja wrote:
@Stu: please link me to these guidelines, with test data if possible.

Bottom line though is that there is no legislation set up around bolting in the hills, thus I don't see how there can be any legal repercussions for injuries arising from failures. That is all I was saying. It's climb at your own risk. This is why trad is great. anyway

Here you go: http://www.climb.co.za/anchor-replacement-fund/
Yeah but trial and error has shown us what to use where - and the aim is to reduce the amount of risk (breaking bolts in this case) involved.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:53 am
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Charles Edelstein
I find this discussion quite intriguing that the present debate is raging about whether these bolts are safe to buy and be used by South Africans.

Why is nobody asking where they have the been used? And on what basis do travelling climbers bolt around here seeing as the 12mm are not standard here. Why are they not properly investigating and following locally accepted standards in the various areas? There are 8mm bolts newly bolted by Europeans that I came across in the last year.

Are we just being used and abused as another 3rd world "dumping ground"?

I can assure you that we South Africans would at our peril pull out a bolt gun in the USA, Autralia or anywhere in Europe without garnering some serious flack.

Rhoda?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:57 pm 
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Location: Waterval Boven
The Hot Rock Expedition of 2010 (http://www.climb.co.za/2010/12/hot-rock-africa-expedition/) stayed with us here in 'Boven for a while on the way down to the Cape. Rhonda is (was) the tour manager and I have no issues with the source/quality/condition of these bolts. They normally travel with a dril for obvious reasons but most of the trippers on the red truck are trad/mixed climbers.

I think it is quite normal to travel with the intent to open (and bolt) new routes. We took a bunch of bolts to Mali 2 years ago but ended up opening a trad route where bolts were not needed (unlike some of the other mixed climbs that we did).

Bolts for sale, cheap. No further issues.

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Roc 'n Rope Adventures
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013 257 0363
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:08 am
Posts: 127
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
Real Name: Donovan Craig
I'll buy all of them, Im looking to go and bolt a route at Yellow Wood.







...Sorry, I just couldnt resist :lol: (I'm joking of course!)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:53 am
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Charles Edelstein
@ Gustav,

You have not really answered the question. You consider the bolts are OK. But they appear not to be standard? Or are they? If not standard then is it OK for them to place them in SA rock in wherever they want or to sell them and to be used by S Africans?. Is it OK for them to be used at e.g Boven, Spitzkoppe, Berg, Du Toit's or Milner? I don't think it will wash here with the ARF.

Mali is a very very very 3rd world country. My point exactly. Anything goes there it would appear.

SA is not Mali.

These same guys whoever they are - for obvious reasons - would not travel around 1st world countries with a drill and non standard bolts.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:20 pm 
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Location: Waterval Boven
Howzit Snort,

Have you seen these bolts? They are/were somewhere in Muizenburg last time I enquired - hope they don't get too salty from the southwester before they end up in [safe] hands .

Have you been to Mali? Nice place, eh?

You are right, SA is not Mali.

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Roc 'n Rope Adventures
Waterval Boven
013 257 0363
climb @t rocrope dot com


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