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Dangerous bolt at Kleinmond

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:36 pm
by Outthere
The second bolt of the route "Storm Troopers" 15 in the Middle tier at Kleinmond has been placed so that your karabiner levers over a ridge of rock, and would probably fail under shock loading. This is a new glue-in which I guess was done during the ARF sessions?

Re: Dangerous bolt at Kleinmond

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:59 am
by NatureBoi
Can you not use a longer quick draw?

Re: Dangerous bolt at Kleinmond

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:28 am
by Outthere
It's the top biner which is clipped into the bolt which levers over the ridge. I have never placed a bolt myself but it's an obviously bad placement, with ground-fall potential if the biner failed.

Re: Dangerous bolt at Kleinmond

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:34 am
by mokganjetsi
a "workaround" would be to clip two biners into the bolt on top of each other - the bottom one might fail but very unlikely for the second one to. not fail safe; just safer.

Re: Dangerous bolt at Kleinmond

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:51 am
by Nic Le Maitre
Carabiners really don't like lever action.

Rather use a sling through the bolt (I'm assuming it's a nice round glue-in)

Re: Dangerous bolt at Kleinmond

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:03 pm
by Warren G
Then lets hope no-one falls off the second bolt of this 15. A long term and easy solution to this would be a Mailon in the offending bolt, Outthere, next time you're on the route why not contribute one to the greater climbing community?

God, I hope I didn't rebolt it! Bad bolt placing does happen, just look at the bolting in The Mine and some of The Hole's routes. The same can be said for original bolts, the point is no one in this country is a professional route bolter, instead volunteers spend their weekends rebolting routes, and while there are structures in place to reduce the bad placements that doesn't mean they don't happen.

There is no "They" in a community, only an "Us." Thanks for sharing this info with us, please help by fixing it too

Re: Dangerous bolt at Kleinmond

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:53 am
by Old Smelly
I think in this case Nick's solution is the best - provided it is a nice glued in rounded eye type!

The problem is that it takes knowledge to recognise this problem and more knowledge to know how to deal with it. That is one of the problems with the responsibility that lies on the bolter - everyone assumes that the bolts are 100%. That's why WE/ US as a community must help each other to always do best practices. It is one of the reasons why forums exist and why climbers should all help each other to maintain using the best practices.

Have a great weekend.

Re: Dangerous bolt at Kleinmond

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:21 pm
by Aldoublo
Warren G wrote:Then lets hope no-one falls off the second bolt of this 15. A long term and easy solution to this would be a Mailon in the offending bolt, Outthere, next time you're on the route why not contribute one to the greater climbing community?

God, I hope I didn't rebolt it! Bad bolt placing does happen, just look at the bolting in The Mine and some of The Hole's routes. The same can be said for original bolts, the point is no one in this country is a professional route bolter, instead volunteers spend their weekends rebolting routes, and while there are structures in place to reduce the bad placements that doesn't mean they don't happen.

There is no "They" in a community, only an "Us." Thanks for sharing this info with us, please help by fixing it too
i was really affected by your end message: There is no "They" in a community, only an "Us." Thanks for sharing this info with us, please help by fixing it too.. this is very perfect for someone who really want to fix a very important matter for the sake of many people who are also in the same line. inspiring indeed!

Re: Dangerous bolt at Kleinmond

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:51 am
by Warren G
Aldoublo wrote:Thanks for sharing this info with us, please help by fixing it too.. this is very perfect for someone who really want to fix a very important matter for the sake of many people who are also in the same line. inspiring indeed!
I rewrote this several times because I took such offence to the tone of your reply. As I stated above, there is no "They" in a community, only an "Us," (actually its "unity" in community) and if you feel that something needs to be corrected/added I strongly encourage you to do so, but don't demand that "They" do it for you: Buy a Mailon, leave it insitu, add a second if one isn't long enough, add locktite if you are worried someone will take it, but please don't expect me to give up a day of my life to place a single mailon on a route that I have nothing to do with so that you can climb it. Be the "They," not the problem.

However I will offer you this olive branch: instead of making such demands of me why not say " Warren you seem active and vocal on this subject, I see a problem with a route and I would like your help with fixing it: I will sponsor the equip necessary, petrol and my fine company to take you out there. Once we are done with the offending route I would be happy to spend a day climbing with you to learn what I can from someone with far greater experience than myself. I believe in learning from everyone around me, and believe this is a fantastic opportunity to do just that, and maybe even make a new friend." With an approach like that I guarantee I would help you. You may even find I have the equipment necessary and you may not even need to buy anything to leave behind. Try me, you'd be amazed at how approachable I can be.

Re: Dangerous bolt at Kleinmond

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:57 am
by Nic Le Maitre
mokganjetsi wrote:a "workaround" would be to clip two biners into the bolt on top of each other - the bottom one might fail but very unlikely for the second one to. not fail safe; just safer.
Actually, that might make it worse. The biner would have less room to move with a second biner in place and that'd increase the lever action because the fulcrum would be closer to the end of the biner in the bolt.

Re: Dangerous bolt at Kleinmond

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:53 pm
by Old Smelly
I agree! Sometimes the most simple solution is the best - if the bolt is indeed actually a ring then the sling solution is preferable even to the maillon one but the observation that most people would simply still clip a draw is correct.

Generally climbers are not critical of bolters because they appreciate the effort that goes into bolting and I am sure even more so with those that replace bolts - somehow the expectation then is that they will do a good job - as they are using their time to do it. That is why such an instance is rare. For that reason it is well done that this case was raised and a solution should be found (and carried out).

I do have a gripe about old bolts or ones placed in the wrong position that are then left sticking out of the rock (hanger removed) - to me that just seems deadly - the one thing guaranteed to rip you open if you fall in the area! In some way these are one of those things that can put one off sport climbing - and surely they are the responsibility of the bolter or retro bolter. They really scare me - and are not easily sorted out.

Re: Dangerous bolt at Kleinmond

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:23 am
by Chris F
Warren G wrote:
Aldoublo wrote:Thanks for sharing this info with us, please help by fixing it too.. this is very perfect for someone who really want to fix a very important matter for the sake of many people who are also in the same line. inspiring indeed!
I rewrote this several times ....yada yada... Try me, you'd be amazed at how approachable I can be.
I, on the other hand, think it might be a smart bot. Let's see if there's any more messages from that address.