Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

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Wes B
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Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Wes B » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:38 pm

This is written by an inexperienced young bloke from up north. I want to get into trad and want to take it back to the high level when Andy De klerk was climbing high grades back in the day. Why hasn't trad climbing in SA continued from strength to strength and why hasn't SA produced high quality trad climbers? there seems to be some underlying factor that i don't know about. I want to be inspired by sick strong gutsy men from SA climbing brave routes and risking it all. multipitch or singlepitch it doesn't matter. we have a number of strong sport climbers climbing grades 30-33/34 but hardly any trad climbers climbing 28 and above regularly. we need a tommy caldwell, matt segal, alex honnold or didier berthod to be produced from SA. Gustav has boa rodeo or mlungu goes to school been repeated yet? Any answers will be appreciated.

shorti
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by shorti » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:48 pm

Hey Wesly, great that you want to give it a bash, but there are some people who climb hard trad routes. Maybe not Boa Rodeo and the like, but hard indeed. With sport routes you'll sometimes find that 2 routes even though they are graded the same, one can take substancially more effort than the other. It's the same idea with trad, just much more amplified. For many people trad climbing is not about achieving a certain grade, the grades often don't give any indication of the achievement, but there are so many more wonderfull aspects to it. Personally I love the freedom, problem solving, location, different styles, atmosphere (nothing beats running out the long crux high above awsome scenery, ok maybe lunch on a ledge while the eagles swoop past below you). You also test your abilities to stay calm, and on the odd occasion you learn what fear is. It is also more fun to climb stuff on-sight. This is probably not helping much to describe how it is, afterall it is different for everyone, you just have to experience it to know what it is like. Climbing is all about fun and pushing difficulty can be fun, but there's so much fun to get lost in (at the places Hilton described for example) that the desire for high grades can be forgotten easily.

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Forket
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Forket » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:54 pm

Well wes, i cant really say much bout trad since ive only climbed an 18 and 20 trad, but one thing that i noticed when doing it was that we enjoyed it more because it took us back to what climbing was all about, it made us climb better becoz of the fear of falling, it wasnt fear but more of an urge to complete the route. I also think the reason why people dont climb so much trad in SA is because people are comfortable with sport, u dont risk much and there is pure enjoyment where if u go into trading so many other safety aspects come into play. I watched Josh's or Alex's comitted dvd and notice that those guys who do it like diedier bathod or whateva his name, the risk it all, not because they brave, but because they enjoy it. I enjoyed it and when u get ur rack set up, ill join u and alex, even though i got my fear of heights, somebody ahs to keep u two fed and ill start small, and work my way into the higher 20s:)eT42

Pea1nut
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Pea1nut » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:17 am

This is pretty unrelated. But wes, call me sometime on 0732926369, and let me know what dates you coming down to ct on, i'm super psyced to go for a bit of a road trip, and send some hard shit, let me know :) peter

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Justin
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Justin » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:23 am

- Fear of falling (this is why we have bolt ladders on Sport routes too)
- The perception that bolted protection is stronger than Trad gear placements
- Big walk in's
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thebest
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by thebest » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:46 am

To crank hard on trad routs you must forget about everything youve been teached and accept the harder you crank the bigger the risk. So you must walk into a crag with the mindset im ether finnishing the rout or walking out of here with broken legs this is why no one is cranking hard because the cant accept that basic fact

so the guys or girls must man up and go for it lets see if we can get a south african in the next sharp end

:afro: climb hard :afro:

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Justin
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Justin » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:07 am

This is it everyone:

As thebest implies above, if you fall while Trad climbing you will die (broken legs are the least worst thing that could happen to you!!)

No two ways about it folks... whoever teached you, forget everything they told you and go for maximum risk (this is best done by placing as little gear as possible).
Retrain your brain... alcohol will help with this and don't let the sharp end get you.

Deserters (people bailing off routes) will be shot
Girls in particular should 'man up'
"If you don't let go, you won't fall"
"Ropes are for just getting down"

:mrgreen:

I think we need to create a 'Drifter' award for the best post of the year :wink:
(no offence Drifter :D

thebest, I admire your 'Just Do It' attitude, however you're missing a few things :)
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thebest
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by thebest » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:43 am

see wat happens to you when you ment to be studing for matric :D

:afro: climb hard :afro:

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Justin
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Justin » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:50 am

Hehe, good luck with the exams ;)
Give me a shout if you come to Montagu, we can go Trad climb some Sport routes 8)
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Not
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Not » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:55 am

I think its simply an exposure (and I don't mean high windy cliffs) thing.

Once someone has shown you how to tie in, clip a draw and how to not Z-clip, back-clip, or clip gate facing your direction of travel you can get yourself fairly safely on the face for a few Rk.

You need some form of tutelage to get trad right. I mean, someone to show you how to place a hex so its a passive camming device, how to decide which of two cracks is better to place pro in, how to read what pro you need to carry up a route...if you don't get it just right, you could really find yourself in a bad spot.

Its also very expensive to just start trad on a whim.

My goal is to get on a few trad climbs with some experienced people when I feel strong enough to not be a total burden. My hope is that UCT will run another trad-101 meet next year, where I'll be able to participate.

I think the university clubs and the MCSA are the prime place for people to start trad. And to start climbing in general...
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Hector
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Hector » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:00 pm

Wes B there are a few people pushing on trad but you're right, it is pretty much dead up north. CT seems to have a bigger core group of people pushing their grades on gear. My experience has been that if people start out as sport climbers they seldom take the next step to trad. There's this image of tradding as being dangerous, difficult and expensive. The die-hard tradsters dont help much because we always talk up the epics and big falls. Working a trad route is a lot harder than working a sport project of the same grade. Its mentally as well as physically draining, you have to clean the kit each time, there's no nicely chalked up grips to guide you and there's a whole range of strategies to consider that don't come into your average sport route. I was on a project a few weeks back and couldnt find the key #1 wire placement because a spider had laid its eggs in the crack making it invisible. That just doesn't happen on a sport route.
The JHB MCSA offers regular trad courses but most of the people who attend never end up pushing themselves or even taking a fall.
When you finished exams I'll take you to the kloofs and get you on something well-hard and safe. There's plenty around.

SouthAfricanMan
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by SouthAfricanMan » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:13 pm

Climbing crazy-hard-life-threatening trad on the weekend makes all the hard work I did during the week seem pretty pointless.

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Forket
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Forket » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:20 am

Alex aka The Best aka Yoda of climbing aka master yoshi. U realy g0ta spend less tym p0sting b0ut passing matric and get 2 the studying l0l, we g0t a big week next week, and wes aka black kid, i think we must go get m0re experience on trad, i kn0w u cn climb a 30, bt on that 20 u spent 30minutes placing gear, we g0ta w0rk on kn0wing what 2 wedge in where. Even if its on 20s, alex nearly sh0wd us if it was ab0ut br0ken legs or death, if u saw the ph0tos on faceb0ok. L0l, anyways, alex we g0ta go climb after chemistry, ask paul 2 take us 2 that other place, wes nice p0st, we must get trad going at b0ys high next year, we cn b the teacherz and bug ur m0m with all the safety issues. Write a p0st on multi pitching, i wana learn m0re b0ut that, does anyb0dy kn0w of trad in knysna at the heads? Or anywhere near there? Or even sp0rt?

LIVE TODAY LIKE YESTERDAY WAS SUP0SE 2 B UR LAST DAY :) eT42

pierre.joubert
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by pierre.joubert » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:26 am

I'm sorry, I don't speak Klingon.

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Justin
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Justin » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:38 am

Me either :D Funny how the 0's slow your reading down!

Forket ask's "whats a Klingon?"
Check out Everyday Klingon Phrases - my favourite being 'Your Mother has a smooth forehead!!'
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shorti
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by shorti » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:53 am

:lol:
Forket wrote:LIVE TODAY LIKE YESTERDAY WAS SUP0SE 2 B UR LAST DAY :) eT42
If your Chemistry is as bad as your English, then it won't be your last day, you'll have to do it all over again, but on the other hand, if your climbing and gear placing is anything like your English your last day may very well be in the near future. :eye:

Back to the topic, why are people so afraid to climb trad, almost every post not only just mentions it, but it seems like it is the main reason why Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam

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Forket
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Forket » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:49 am

Firstly admin oke, dissing a b0yshi guy's m0m isnt smart, it wud get ugly if ths wasnt wesleys p0st. So lets just get off m0thers, i just got off yours.
And "LIVE 2DAY LIKE YESTERDAY WAS UR LAST DAY!" was ment 2 b written like that, c0z its "m0dernday typing language" if its difficult 2 process then pick up a ph0ne and sms sum0ne and see the format of the language u get bak. Anyways, bak 2 trad, wes, like i t0ld u lastnyt via sms, pe0ple just dnt hav the balls 2 do trad! My bet is that alex is g0na bring it back lol!:) eT42

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tygereye
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by tygereye » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:55 am

To all you guys writing exams:
A quick lesson in English...
You don't get teached, you get taught.
:x
EEK!!!

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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by pierre.joubert » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:08 am

:lol: shorti, Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam Qo'!

Well, I suppose trad's not the worst thing to kill you... no, but seriously... It's not that bad. The way to get into it is to just get into it. Certainly not the most recommended way to start trad, but there are people who just rock up with 3 borrowed cams and a set of hexes bought on a hunch and then start. At a slate crag... Radioactive. Eish.

And then you like the intensity so much that you spend a lot of cash on gear, and then you are free to climb anything. One of the best climbing times I've had was cruising round the bottom of Cederberg Kloof, looking at a recess in the face, and going to Dieter: "Yeah, I think that'll go... let's see" and then topping out an hour later. It wasn't a long or hard route, maybe 17? but a longish, safe runout above steep ground with 2 solid pieces right below to make you concentrate. Not the best route I've climbed, and reading the guide, most probably not a first ascent either. But free and clean and fun.

The spirit of trad right there, and this at a crag with a 30min flat walk in. And then you go to Upper Tonquani, and then a bit further to Wilgepoort (driving right past the entrance to Bronkies) and the next thing you know you haven't clipped a bolt in months.

Oh, and lik3 d00d y0, y0u s33m 2 b like 't4rd3d w3n u wr1t lik3 that.

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Mark
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Mark » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:15 am

I read an article by Bill Cosby (I'm guessing these supposed matriculants may not know who that is) - but he asked a simple question - "why is it cool to talk, write, spell like we are uneducated". I'm wondering if it helps to create a really poor image of yourself so that anything you do will exceed people's expectations.... :puker:

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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by SMEG » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:22 am

hahaha
k!dz th3s3 d4yz, try!l\lg 2b l33t..

there's an interesting harvard (i think) study about how the brain reads the first and last letters of a word (without really being cognizant of the middle jumble of letters), and deduces the word from the context of the sentence. If i remember correctly, it has to do with the position of consonants, and the unimportance of vowels (this may have been the focus of the article). This is the essence of speed and skim reading. The most convincing way they prove this is by writing the abstract following this rule. Its ridiculous how easy it is to read, how quickly it can be read, and how a lot of people dont even notice :lol:

off route, but interesting...

Wayne73
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Wayne73 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:50 am

Well now I know how the Romans felt when the brits started with the english an' all.

Now because a don't really know anything about this, my opinions are as follows.

2 Reasons why trad climbers do not climb the grades that sport climbers climb.

1 - The high grades set down by sport climbers are set up with a redpoint assent. The bolts seem safe, the exposure is negligable so you fall and hang on the pro till your hearts content - no problem. Trad exposure shrinks your balls to size of peanuts, pro no matter if its a bomber placement does not look that safe to fall onto with gay (classical meaning not colloquial meaning) abandon.

2 - People mistake hard for hardcore - High grade routes are normally overhanging so they are actually quite safe. It is the D and E (grade 7-11) routes that are in fact the dangerous routes. If you don't believe me ask SNORT who is one of them dusty old traddies or so I have been told. So it is people like me who are to slack to climb the hard routes that are actually hardcore. :drunken:

'and you text speak guy, remember that getting your point across in a concise and understandable manner is more important than saving time typing or being cool. But then maybe I am just getting old :(
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tygereye
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by tygereye » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:55 am

Is it really faster tyipng like that?

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Forket
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Forket » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:11 am

Firstly, wesley asked me to comment on his post. And i did not have my computer with me so i used my phone. And these days nobody types in full on their phones. And alex is the yoda of climbing, he can tel you anything you want to know, been in his class for the past two years. Point being is that we arent here to learn english bt to keep you guys happy i will type in full, we are here to share climbing experiences and help eachother with climbing and i am also quite sure that most pro climbers care bout school, we just want to get out on the rock and enjoy the thrill of being free, thats why wes i think trad has been forgotten, because people do not climb for the climbing anymore, but for the title of the climb, nothing is about just climbing it because its there anymore, people climb because they want something in return. Wes i have seen you climb many times and what i love about it is the fact that you climb because its there, keegs was also like that, you push yourself because its there and not for the title, otherwise you would have let me get you a sponser! :) eT

Heinrich
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Heinrich » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:20 am

Well, with the current educational system in place it is no wonder youngsters can't speak any language properly, let alone write it! But don't despair: the more people speak in this idiotic manner, the more normal it is and the less "incorrect" it becomes, since making consistent, systematic language errors is (according to language theory) the sign of a new dialect forming and not (oh dear me!) a mistake in any event. s0 scru da m0da tung n lets wr8 lik3 retards.

as for hard trad routes, it is true that climbing hard on trad doesn't amount to doing dangerous and stupid stuff. The hardest trad route I've ever done (28) was also the safest and best protected line I've done on trad so far. I've done other lines MUCH easier where I browned my pants for the lack of good gear.

I think the main problems with trad are that 1) the gear is very expensive, compared to sport and 2) the level of commitment needed for doing a single route is too much for most. It is scarier; it can be much less safe than sport in many instances and above all it is time-consuming.

It is true though, that South Africa's hard trad community is shrinking fast, and that's a pity, because we really were on an international level with that for many many years.

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Forket
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Forket » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:27 am

Thanks smeg and wayne, il remember what you said wayne, it is quite true that you must remember the goal rather than the means of getting there, but when i wrote that it wasnt ment for anybody else but wes, and i speak to him often so i know he cn read what i say and he also types on phones like that. But thanks, i wil keep it in mind and yes it is much faster to type like that because thats how we do it everyday on facebook or mxit. Thx guys:) sorry for the issue, forgot its not about our matrics but the whole old climbing community, hehe:) eT

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tygereye
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by tygereye » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:37 am

I think many a youngster is weary of the often 2+ hour walk-ins with heavy packs...

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Forket
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Forket » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:54 am

Thats true but in the end of the day the few of us that do it enjoy it so much

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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Not » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:36 pm

SMEG:

Olny srmat poelpe can raed tihs.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!

This study was done at Cambridge as far as I know.

No one writes in full any more. I call BS. I write upwards of 15 sms a day and every one is in full English, punctuation and all. And I still manage to fit most things into 160 characters or whatever it is.
I don't think, therefore I'm Not

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Forket
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Re: Why is trad climbing in SA not as big as sport climbing

Post by Forket » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:47 pm

Wow that is quite hardcore, but not anything to do with climbing lol, climbersalways have the most random facts. Does anyb0dy know of any place where gear can be baught where you dont pay mountains:)

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