What drill ?

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Justin
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What drill ?

Postby Justin » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:37 am

Going to be buying a drill soon. Looking at getting a Cordless Rotary Hammer GBH 36 V-LI

Any comments / recommendations ?

Thanks,
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Hann
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Re: What drill ?

Postby Hann » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:02 am

Perhaps a much better solution for sport routes?
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Justin
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Re: What drill ?

Postby Justin » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:13 am

Cute :wink:
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Hann
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Re: What drill ?

Postby Hann » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:40 am

To Clarify:

"Cute"
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Re: What drill ?

Postby Hann » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:40 am

To Clarify:

"Serious"
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Re: What drill ?

Postby Justin » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:44 am

I'm not hand drilling...
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Re: What drill ?

Postby Justin » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:03 am

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SLR
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Re: What drill ?

Postby SLR » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:48 am

Bought the 36volt bosch 2 years ago, and still going strong. good value, and with improved battery technology.

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Re: What drill ?

Postby leondutoit » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:18 am

check out Makita drills - I held one the other day and it's super light weight (3.3kg). I have used the Bosch and it works, but it's heavy (4.3kg). This Makita really impressed me. I can't remember the exact model though.

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Re: What drill ?

Postby grrr » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:10 pm

leondutoit wrote:I held one the other day ...

Its not enough to just hold it, you have to drill with it, see how long it lasts - you know? :wink:

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Re: What drill ?

Postby leondutoit » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:35 pm

havent drilled with it, but my friend who owns it seems happy - he had no complaints about battery life. it also depends on how efficient your drilling is, how hard the rock is etc. but strangely enough, i've never been able to spend enough time in a harness on a wall to drill out two batteries and hammer in all of those bolts in one session...

you can always buy extra batteries if you need more.

i guess it depends on what type of routes you want to bolt. if you plan for ground-up big wall stuff or long walk-in settings then lightweight is important, but if you want to bolt short crags from above, with no walk-in, then weight doesnt matter all that much.

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Re: What drill ?

Postby emile » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:28 pm

Hey Justin

You should also talk to Jaques at Mountain Pursuits - I forgot what exactly he did, but he retrofitted some drills with more efficient battery packs (lighter).

Chuck rules

PS: Hand-drilling is for single guys.... (who don't need to get home before dark) :mrgreen:

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Re: What drill ?

Postby XMod » Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:43 am

Hi Justin, scary-assly, Makita have discontinued their 36v rock eater :( All their rep had to offer me the other day was an 18v miniature wannabe drill. Its worth checking that this is really the case as that was a good drill and cheaper than the Bosch, Makita tools rock!

That said the Bosch is a really bomber drill. You will be very happy with it.

The only one bettter is the Hilti TE6A (or latest equivalent) but at over ten grand for the kit its kinda outta reach of most mortals.

Retro fitting of drlls, with 2X 12v Alarm batteries, was something we did to the old 24v drills when their NiKad batteries died (which they did alarmingly quickly, scuse the pun!). It is not something I would recommend doing to the new drills as most have a slow start feature (drill turns slowly at first, nice for settting the hole) which will malfunction without the correct power source. Replacing the batteries will also void any warantee you have on a new drill. Over and above all of this the new InfoLithium batteries are really good, charging quickly and lasting way longer than the old NiKad ones. If you can afford a new drill the Bosch is a great choice (probably the only worthwhile choice with Makita out). Investigate whether the Bosch has the option of a seperate battery pack, ie: one you can mount on your belt or keep in a pack, if it has get it as this will make a massive difference to how the drill handles, holding a drill and battery at arms length behind your head whilst hanging upside down in a cave is not pleasant!!!!

(Point out to the sales rep how we use their drills, maybe if enough of us moan they will stop designing them purely for people who are drilling into concrete at their feet (faint hope but worth moaning for). The balance is all wrong for using them overhead).

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Re: What drill ?

Postby Justin » Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:58 am

Good advice, thanks Greg :thumleft:
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Re: What drill ?

Postby Marshall1 » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:45 pm

I have an 18V Matabo & a Hilti TE6A. The Hilti is the real deal. But it flipping heavy & the batteries don't last. The thing to watch is ratio between how fast it turns & how hard it impacts. Hilti have got this just right. Most drills miss this ratio, causing bits to burn or stress snap.

I'm reasonably happy with the 18V Matabo's performance. It is light. The batteries are Li-lon jobs, which are better with not holding memory, don't need a complete & regular discharge-&-re-charge. Which for bolting use is great.
Neg - It chews through bits. Often breaking off the end in the hole, so you need a complete new hole & have an unsightly extra hole.

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Re: What drill ?

Postby Andy Davies » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:50 pm

Justin - ARF has used a single Makita to do most of the work and its a pretty nice drill. Guy & Ross are pretty happy with the Kress which is small and light so check it out too.

You gonna go open some routes in bad kloof? :lol:
AndyDavies

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Re: What drill ?

Postby noki » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:54 pm

Hi Justin

XMod's post is spot on. And Emile, thanks for the punt.
The Bosch probably gets my vote as the second best drill. If you want to do those long country routes, Ryobi has a drill that is petrol-operated. A bit messy, but no heavy batteries, and your only limit is the amount of juice you have (and the petrol price!). Oh, and keep the petrol off your rope!
My first vote does not go to the Hilti Te6A, as its 36V architecture is just too top heavy. What does get my vote is the Hilti Te2A. It is a 24V drill, and is way, way stronger than the Bosch. The Te2A is expensive (but not as dear as the Te6A--another advantage). But what we do is remodel the battery. Then, if you take only the drill, and do a remodelled battery and charger, you can still come up considerably cheaper than Hilti's exorbitant prices for their battery and charger.
Take a look at the batteries we have done. The newest model has a better plug, which clips in place and can thus not inadvertently come out. We fit the battery with a fuse and reverse polarity protection, to give your battery the maximum protection. We are also in the process of designing in a battery charge-state indicator.
Now, having said that, we will obviously charge you for all of this, and our turn-around time at the moment will be about a month on a new battery (will first have to order some materials).
You can also look at the article Dave Drummond put on the SAMM website and DIY (cheaper than paying me, but less professional! :-) ). Just note that one of his diagrams has the + and - reversed, and this can burn out the trigger unit on the Hilti (not wise, and will cost you about R400 to repair). I did make them aware of the mistake in the article, and it may already have been corrected.
Finally, Mashall1, can you tell me more about those Lithium batteries (pics would help). I have been investigating them for my conversions, but I am still afraid about cooling. I don't want a battery bursting into flame when it is attached to your rope (Nylon has a very low melting point... :-<> ).
The Lead-Acid batteries we use are heavy, but offer more juice per weight than NiCad or NiMh. Also, because (as Xmod noted) the battery is no longer on the drill, drilling becomes a lot easier. But the battery pack weighs about 6Kg (horrible for long walk-ins :-( ).
b.t.w. we don't just supply the battery--you actually send the drill to us and we remodel the drill, using a coiled lead (think old Telkom landline phones) to attach the drill to the battery (sorry, no pic). We can also source the drill directly from Hilti (we have an account) and then modify it and send it to you.

ciao
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Re: What drill ?

Postby noki » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:57 pm

Hi there

Here's pics of the converted drill, just to explain.

ciao
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Re: What drill ?

Postby XMod » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:05 pm

Interesting post! Even if u do advertise ur product! (ahem!) - in this instance probably totally acceptable hey Just?

Lead acid batteries have the advantage of allowing you to opt for high amp/hour ratings giving super long drilling time on one charge. At one time we used two motorcycle batteries of 13ah (I think the average InfoLi is about 3ah). We only came close to flattening them once, after 22 holes (some 90mm, in hard stone) and so much harness time that no-one wanted drill anymore anyway! :drunken: The batteries were the old open type (not sealed) and leaked acid everywhere! Many burnt slings and one rope had to be retired! If you do go this route trying to revive an old 24v drill get sealed batteries. Lighter than motorcycle batteries are those used for household alarms (14volt?), these are sealed but are not deep-cycle batteries. Ie: they are not designed to be drained and recharged as one does with drilling, whatever, they work, never seem to get old and die and they are reasonably cheap. They drill 12 - 18 holes depending on the rock.

Or buy the kit above it looks neat! One thing though, its nice to be able to seperate the batteries so that you can throw one in a buddy's pack while he/she's not looking (hehe).

My old bosch bulldog still bumbles along but is way slower than any of the new drills, have fun Justin, cant wait to sample your routes.

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Re: What drill ?

Postby noki » Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:22 pm

Hi

Yeah, I know I was pushing, but I don't recall seeing any explicit prohibition in the rules. Also, I did make it explicit, down to supplying my logo and all (so no underhanded, secretive stuff, which I think is worse). And I did mention the free DIY alternative, so no one is under any obligation to buy anything.
As for the Lead-acid batteries, yes, definitely only the sealed gel (not liquid) batteries. They are 12V cells, and my record is 50 holes of 110mm depth in a single session. However, take note that that was soft Free State sandstone. But my reckoning is that the pack is sufficient for a day out on the crag.
ciao

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Re: What drill ?

Postby Justin » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:31 am

Hi All,

Thanks for the responses, picked up my drill this weekend :pig:

So far I've only held it :wink: but looking to get out there and make a line of holes in the rock

I ended up going with the Bosch
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Scott
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Re: What drill ?

Postby Scott » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:24 pm

nice dude! Hey is it the lithium Ion one? amazon.com has the batteries on sale for super cheap, I think they were $70 Im gonna get the same drill and pick up some spare batteries.
cool
Scott

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Justin
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Re: What drill ?

Postby Justin » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:58 pm

Lithium Ion battery (you get two batteries with the drill)
I was going to wait for a while before buying, but with the exchange rate as it is I thought I'd better get it before the prices go up!
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