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 Post subject: Helmets
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:51 pm 
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Location: Cape Town
The current photo on the home page shows a unknown climber on Muesli (19) climbing trad without a helmet.
Obviously its his choice but perhaps pictures of climbers not protecting their brains (or using them) should not be promoted.
:?:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:38 am 
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The fashion media showing photos of aneroxia models are responsible for the increase in bulimia and aneroxia in young females and studies have shown this, so therefore it is logical to say also that if the climbing media shows photos of people climbing without helmets or solo climbing they are encouraging some people to do the same.

Is solo climbing a good or bad think? In my opinion solo climbing is a bad thing because if you slip you die.

If something in climbing can give me extra protection I am going to use it. A helmet gives you some extra protection.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:42 am 
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As with everything soloing is a choice ... it's not good or bad, it's a choice. If you want to solo then go for it... as with all aspects of climbing, there is a safe way to do it and a reckless way. In the end it's up to you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:03 am 
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Helmets are for losers. Think about it like this: If you wear a helmet, then you are expecting to fall. By having a preconceived outcome you will be setting yourself up for failure.

Helmets have always been an optional item of climbing gear. The fact that ClimbZA posted a picture of a climber doing a trad route without a helmet does not mean that it's their job to enforce such items of protection. It's up to each climber to decide on what methods are best suited to protect and preserve ones life in the vertical realm.

The only good use I can see for having a helmet would be to hold lots of strawberries for eating if one happens upon a patch en route to the crags.

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\"What one leads on-sight, in good, strong style, safely, is what one's ability is.\" - Pat Ament.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:20 am 
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Real Name: OneDog
8a_climber wrote:
Helmets are for losers. Think about it like this: If you wear a helmet, then you are expecting to fall. By having a preconceived outcome you will be setting yourself up for failure.

Helmets have always been an optional item of climbing gear. The fact that ClimbZA posted a picture of a climber doing a trad route without a helmet does not mean that it's their job to enforce such items of protection. It's up to each climber to decide on what methods are best suited to protect and preserve ones life in the vertical realm.

The only good use I can see for having a helmet would be to hold lots of strawberries for eating if one happens upon a patch en route to the crags.


..... or when held by the strap it can be swung with enough force to smack shut the mouths of arrogant assholes like yourself.

You should go work for Manto - I'm sure she has use for idiots like you. By your reasoning, one should not wear condoms because that put's you in a loser's mindset expecting to get aids thereby ensuring said outcome?

8a for health minister!!!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:22 am 
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Real Name: Leon Nel
Quote:
\"Talking crap is easy. Everything else if for the rest. If you meet me at the crag, don't bother talking to me unless you're an idiot \" - 8a Climber


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:18 pm 
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Real Name: Jonathan Joseph
While I, and others, may not agree with 8a's tone..... the point is thus.....

8a_climber wrote:
Helmets have always been an optional item of climbing gear. The fact that ClimbZA posted a picture of a climber doing a trad route without a helmet does not mean that it's their job to enforce such items of protection. It's up to each climber to decide on what methods are best suited to protect and preserve ones life in the vertical realm.



End of story.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:35 pm 
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To the forum moderator:
Quote:
..... or when held by the strap it can be swung with enough force to smack shut the mouths of arrogant assholes like yourself.

You should go work for Manto - I'm sure she has use for idiots like you. By your reasoning, one should not wear condoms because that put's you in a loser's mindset expecting to get aids thereby ensuring said outcome?

8a for health minister!!!!!


I find Emile's post violent and offensive. I take offense to being called \"arrogant assholes\"[sic]. I also find his political reference to be un-called for and has nothing to do with climbing. I take offense to being called \"idiot\".

As per the rules and regulations of this forum, I hope that you, the owners of ClimbZA will act accordingly with regards to this matter. Direct public insults should not be tolerated.

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\"What one leads on-sight, in good, strong style, safely, is what one's ability is.\" - Pat Ament.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:53 pm 
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Location: pretoria
If ppl chose not to wear a helmit while climbing it is there issue.

Uing a helmit is the same as wearing a seatbelt while driving a car in my oponion.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:00 pm 
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8a: You are right, I'm the idiot for responding to your post, it seems I'm a sucker for your trolls. Anyways, it would be a waste of a good helmet. My bad, hope you're ego is still intact?.

Let's hug?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:49 pm 
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Just a warning emile.

this 8a_wreck might pick your pocket if you haven't bolted it shut, remember?

I would hate to see you lose the little money you have, my bru...

Helmets are a must! :D

And I don't even one... :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:56 pm 
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And...
If i remember my basic climbing courses correctly, helmets are there to protect thy melon from taking a punch when stuff fall from above on you...

stuff like rocks, even gear dropped by the climber, 8a's ego, ect ect

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:40 pm 
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I'd hate to see this discussion end this way. Just to clarify - 8a promised to meet me at a crag someday and give me that hug (and more :oops: ) , so no worries.

Brolloks: Some of that stuff you mentioned are just hot air anyway, it should not cause much damage, but point taken, thanks.

I must admit to missing (although predictable in this case) Fanta's input on the matter - Fanta, where are you? Are you stuck in that mountain?

On the original question in this topic:
I don't know trad conditions, are there that much more loose rock on trad routes as opposed to sport routes, hence the objection to showing specifically a trad climber without a helmet? I'd guess in some circumstance it's more important for the belayer to be wearing the helmet?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:45 pm 
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looks like 8a also gets fudge from the milkman


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:51 pm 
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Location: da Big Red baboon in magalies
The choice to not wear a helmet is self-eliminating.
Thus removing people of that class from our gene pool.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:06 pm 
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To wear a helmet or not to wear a helmet... ? that is the question. I work with brain injured people and it is sad to see how a serious head injury leads to changes in behaviour, loss of earnings, etc. So then yes, please wear helmets. I have fortunately not come across any rock climbers that have had serious head injuries (maybe they did wear helmets when they fell) as a result of falling or having rocks fall on them. They mostly crack ribs, butts, arms, legs and sometimes even ego's. It is not about whether you are set up for failure, or not, cause anything can happen. it is a question of being safe...
That's all, sir! :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:02 pm 
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I guess it was inevitable that this topic was going to become about the choice of wearing a helmet or not.
I did originally say that its up to each climber to decide but I way up the pros and cons as follows:
Cons: More gear to carry, takes a bit of getting used to, initial expense
Pros: Vastly reduced chance of head trauma, protection from falling rocks, gear ect, protection from hitting head on unseen overhang ect, improved sense of safety, vastly reduced chance of head trauma.

I find when I wear my helmet I crank harder as I feel safer.

For anyone who has never worn a helmet you should try it. They are not that expensive anyway and don't exactly wear out like a rope. The only time you would need to replace it is if it has taken a knock, and then you will be very happy to anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:33 am 
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Real Name: Russell Warren
My two cents worth for Emiles benefit. Multipitch climb in my opinion has the biggest helmet \"requirement\" as you always have somebody above you on the route and it is possible that said person can dislodge loose items from above or even drop a size 5 camalot on your head! Now that could spoil your hairdo!

Further to this trad routes generally see less traffic (doubly true for country routes) than sport routes so there is a greater possibility of there still being loose rock, vegetation or other stuff on the route.

All the above only covers foreign objects falling on your pip from above. In sport climbing I think the bigger danger is banging your pip during a fall.

I agree fully with the view that helmets are like safety belts: Not guaranteed to save your life, but statistically you have a better chance of surviving. After all of that ramble I don't normally wear a helmet on a single pitch sport route. I should though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:35 am 
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Real Name: Russell Warren
Oh yes I forgot to 8a_Climber (troll or not) Cry me river!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:30 am 
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Real Name: Stacey
So basically 8a_climber purely climbs Solo with absolutely no protection then because ropes, harness, cams etc are just more forms of protection like helmets, and if you use them “you are expecting to fall. By having a preconceived outcome you will be setting yourself up for failure”. Do you only climb solo 8a or are you a hypocrite?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:03 pm 
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I've bonded with my helmet & don't climb without it(sport, trad, multi & single - whatever). Accidents happen...ask 8a's mum.

I'm all with this whole freedom plot. But what happens when the soloist decks it near me & needs assistance. I'm I expected to take off my helmet(& trash my weekend) to help. So his freedom/risk taking starts to jepardize my weekend. I say leave their corpses at the crags to warn others.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:10 am 
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I am new to climbing. I have harnass, shoes. Should I be looking at getting a helmet?what are the benafits?how much should I spend on this?will a cycling helmet work the same(becourse I have one already)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:26 am 
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Hey Wouter,

Petzl is a good brand and reasonably priced.

A cycling helmet is designed to deal with different impacts. A climbing helmet has a thicker and harder outer sheel to deal with stones and rocks, which would penetrate a cycling helmet.

For sport climbing it is safer, but IMHO not neccesary to have a helmet, for trad and anything multipitch it is a must!
happy climbing!
B


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:28 am 
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Real Name: Willem Boshoff
he wouter buddy its a good idea to invest in a helmet - can get a decent climbing helmet (eg black diamond halfdome) for about R500. that said, a climbing partner who is very experienced climbs with a cycling helmet and come to think of it, it should be fine - you really want to protect your dome against fallign rock or crashing into the cliff when falling and swinging. pretty much the same as for cycling. climbing helmets just look a bit cooler.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:31 am 
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Real Name: Willem Boshoff
and yes, i take brussels point on cycling helmets - would have to be a makulu rock to penetrate a cycling helmet though, but definitely possible. better to climb with a cycling helmet than with nothing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:24 pm 
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Just for interest sake, Edelrid has The Shield, a helmet that can be used as a bike helmet, so it was made to withstand climbing 'stress' as well as bicycling 'stress'. Don't know if we can buy them in SA however...
8)

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 Post subject: Helmets
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:06 pm 
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Emile, I'm with you on this one.
I think we need to send 8a climber to the proctologist to get that number 4 cam taken out of his arse !
He'll probably be a much nicer and happier guy after that and maybe even meet a girl !
Which beats the hell out of what he currently does at night= spanking over the Victoria's secret catalog (or probably pics of Chris Sharma).


Helmets are a good idea when climbing trad !


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:16 pm 
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If you can't afford a mountaineering helmet you could wear a hard hat. North safety products make a good quality hard hat. They cost about +- R50(don't quote me)

You could also if you wanted to spend more money buy a industrial climbing helmet(costs +- R200) from Rope World.

I have contacted this company http://www.safetysupplies.co.uk/trolleyed/2/ and have asked them what is the the difference in strengths between a hard hat, a climbing helmet and a industrial climbing helmet. Let see if they get back to me. Does anyone know the answer to this? From a practical point of view I know someone that was working on scaffolding on a building site,wearing a hard hat and a clay brick fell on his head from 1.5 metres above him, it just bounced off his hard hat and he didn't even really notice that anything landed on his head. I would assume that a hard hat would be able to protect your head at least from a clay brick falling from the second floor on a building when you are standing on the first ,otherwise the hard hat is useless.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:27 pm 
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http://www.tradgirl.com/climbing_faq/safety.htm#helmets


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:34 pm 
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Don't mess about, use the proper thing, mainly because \"Climbing helmets are designed to protect against falling objects impacting front, back, center, and to stay on your head during a fall. \"


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