Gospel Express (17), Montagu

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Hendrik
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Gospel Express (17), Montagu

Postby Hendrik » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:02 pm

Hi. I am pretty new to the world of climbing. Last weekend we had our 2nd session on the rock ever at Montagu.Just want to ask about climbing grades. I did Gospel Express which is 17. But what i hard climb. I did another climb at the Steeple which was a 19 and much longer but Gospel just seemed so much harder. Is there anybody who feel the same or is my little forearms still to weak :D .

Russell Warren
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Postby Russell Warren » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:23 pm

I am not the worlds best climber either, but I also think GE should be at least 18. It is definetly not easier than Chocolate Speedway for argument argument sake and in my opinion it is not much easier than Quasimodo (the soft 20 next door to it). I think it has been a \"17\" for so long that nobody has the balls to suggest that it may be harder than that. Let the flaming begin

Hendrik
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Postby Hendrik » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:08 pm

Thanks Russel. I agree with you. But maybe its also down to climbing style. For me Chocolate Speedway was easier than Gospel. Weird. Its all good. Just thought that Gospel is such an amazing climb it deserved a better grade?

scottnoy
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Postby scottnoy » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:25 pm

I think GE is solid and everything else is soft...

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XMod
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Postby XMod » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:22 pm

Gospel is a little stiff in the grade, but it only feels hard coz ur climbing on such crappy polished rock, there's no grip to it, no wonder it feels hard!

Get out there some more and climb on some decent crags with quality rock that actually has some texture to it.

PS Legoland isnt a real crag, its a road cutting, ^ repeat previous sentence

Russell Warren
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Postby Russell Warren » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:30 am

Maybe I should go a bit further and mention other 17s, but that would be pointless. If rock is smoother than other rock then surely the climb should be graded higher than similar climbs on more grippy rock! My previous posting remains true in my opinion. I have yet to climb with anyone that agrees with the grade. Clearly I haven't climbed with Stu yet.

mkboy
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Postby mkboy » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:43 am

Hi Russel,

I want to just add my two cents and say that I agree with you about GE, its easily the hardest 17 that I have been on, for me it was mainly the texture of the rock,alot of it glassy smooth and slopers, it would be an 18/19 in my book but like you say, heresy to suggest that an easy classic climb in Montagu was graded wrong. Had the conversation before and the comment was passed that it was my technique that was lacking and if i knew how to deal with that type of rock i would see that it was a 17...dunno about that :roll:

do know that I saw people climbing the 20 next door after GE and they said they were much the same...maybe we are jusr cr*p climbers huh?

jeanpant
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Postby jeanpant » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:43 am

The Steeple is a pile of crap. Don't climb anything there or at Legoland.

fundaddy
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Gospel Expressions

Postby fundaddy » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:17 am

Two points:

1. Grading is subjective to the extent that changing a grade by two points up or down, especially in the 15 - 22 range, is really neither here nor there. my physique, abilities, experience and how I am feeling on the day make some climbs easier for me than others. Don't get hung up on the grades, just enjoy the challenge of each route.

2. The quality of the climb does not necessarily correlate to its grade. GE is a truly classic climb and that is reflected by its 5 stars in the guide, not by whether it is a 17 or a 19.

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oOdball
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Re:

Postby oOdball » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:03 am

jeanpant wrote:The Steeple is a pile of crap. Don't climb anything there or at Legoland.


Excuse me :shock:

Have you been to the back of the steeple? Not one crap route there...
You have an opinion, so do I. When these differ, please don't confuse your opinion with the truth, nothing is absolute.

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XMod
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Postby XMod » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:03 pm

Gotta agree with baldbod there the back side of the steeple is the schnit!

GE could be 18...hmmm...maybe but Ive climbed 13's on TM that felt tougher than that, whatever, grades a just a guideline. Leave the arguments about wot grade is wot to the people pushing the envelope of the possible. If you really have to climb there; try going when its not in the sun, black rock in the sun: not a good plan! Besides keep getting out there enough and you'll need to climb those grades a lot less.

Alex
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Postby Alex » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:40 am

I remember reading in a book about Don Whillans' (The inventor of the original climbing harness) life as him be quoted about what grade a climb he had just done was. \"There are only 2 grades in climbing. Those I can climb and those I can't\".

Russell Warren
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Postby Russell Warren » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:23 pm

Hi Alex

I assume you believe you fall into the first category, but may I remind you that at some point in your life you could not climb either. That Whillans comment is lame. FIS who defines whether you can or can't climb? Relative to the really top climbers of the world there isn't one South African (no offence all you hard core South African climbers) that can really climb. That just shows you how lame that comment actually is!

fundaddy
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Misquote

Postby fundaddy » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:44 pm

Uh, Russell, respect to the passion in your response but it seems you misunderstand the quote.

The quote is about two types of climbs not climbERS. And to your question as to who defines whether you can climb or not - the ROCK bru, that's who!

Either you can climb it or you can't as Don Whillans said. That's not lame. For an example of a really lame quote, how about this:

\"Relative to the really top climbers of the world there isn't one South African that can really climb.\"

:D

Marshall
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Postby Marshall » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:07 pm

\"There are only 2 grades in climbing. Those I can climb and those I can't\". is surpased in lameness by \"because it's there!\".

Russell Warren
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Postby Russell Warren » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:09 am

O.K. O.K Fundaddy. Lots of egg and Humble pie! I did read it incorrectly! His quote does make sense. My apologies Alex.

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XMod
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Postby XMod » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:12 am

Yeah Russel we need to get you present when one of our own SA hardmen/women put down something really hard, its amazing to watch! Seeing Clint blitz an 8b/+ then cruise through two 8a+'s all in the space of a couple of hours was quite an eye opener. After all this, to cap it off, he nonchalantly cleaned the draws off the long 27 we had all been falling off the whole weekend despite being, understandably, somewhat fatigued.

While our crags may not be filled with people doing laps on 8's as some eurocrags are, there are definitely those among us who can climb! Performances like the above are always humbling to us recreational climbers. As I said leave the grade comparisons and criticism (+ or -) about peoples abilities to those who are at the top of the game and really know whats what. Lets all just get out there and climb and forget the nitpicking.

Russell Warren
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Postby Russell Warren » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:24 am

Please guys don't get me wrong about my opinion of SA's finest. My comment needs to be taken in the context of my incorrect interpretation of Don Whillan's comment. I have only the utmost respect for guys like Clinton, Jeremy, Justin, Paul and all the others at the edge of climbing in SA and I really am not qualified to critisize as I am climber who is not out there trying to push the envelope.

Russell Warren
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Postby Russell Warren » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:48 am

One last point to add is that I while I think you are correct in stating that it is only really at the edge of the envelope where grading actually matters, there still is a consensus grading system even for the intro level climbs such as GE so I am just as entiltled as those pushing the envelope to question a grade that in my opinion is not only fractionally out. On the contrary I think guys like myself that have climbed plenty of routes between the 14 and 22 grade recently have a better feel for lower grades than people that now only climb 25+.

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XMod
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Postby XMod » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:51 pm

Jah it would be good to get the consensus grade nailed down, only prob is that everyone seems to have a different idea on that depending on their past experience skill levels etc. What do we do average it out? Youre still gonna get those who disagree! I guess all Im saying is that grades really arent all that important especially not at that level! Way more important to just climb, climb, climb!

Not meaning to put you down with my last post, just pointing out that there are those among us that CRANK.

Marshall
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Postby Marshall » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:35 pm

How does a climber climbing 30+ know the diffrence between 17 & 18? A climber who's envelope is 18 would have a good idea.

\"As I said leave the grade comparisons and criticism (+ or -) about peoples abilities to those who are at the top of the game and really know whats what\"... so we should expect Clinton, Jeremy, Justin, Paul to grade all the 17s. Would they be intrested in this fasinating task? Xmod, this is lame sh#t.


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