Climbing Ethics

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Climbing Ethics

Postby sl0m0 » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:03 pm

Is it ok to climb a trad route, using an adjacent (1-1.5m) sport route's bolts as safety if you are a sport climber ? Does it count as a redpoint, toprope or not at all ??

Regards to all

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Postby Mark » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:17 pm

In my opinion (and I dont climb trad) if you climbed the route without \"hanging\" on the rope for a break or a fall (ie you could have free soloed it) then it might not matter, that said I think there is a psychological benefit to knowing you've clipped something instead of being run out on your trad. So maybe it would be more fair to claim a redpoint even if it was a first attempt.

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Postby ant » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:34 pm

It's like the argument - \"well why can't we bolt the trad route - if you want to trad climb it then just don't clip the bolts!)
Climbing is about a challenge.
the difference between sport and trad, is that on a trad onsight you have to
Of course do all the moves,
But do all the moves while reading where the route goes (and paying the penalty when you get it wrong)
And engauage your mind about where to place what gear
And have weighing on your mind and confidence, the consequences of decisions made in the prior meters.
Climbing is a game without rules. If you do a hard route, but clipping next-door's bolts - it's no one's business to say you can't have any satisfaction in that - you can. - but in terms of claiming at the pub afterwards - unfortunately have not climbed the route as is commonly understood, so you'd have to quantify it. I'd perhaps say that an ascent in this style would count alongside a toprope.

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Postby sl0m0 » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:21 am

Thanks for all the feedback guys - I really appreciate it.
I think I must start collecting some trad gear - some awesome trad climbs around.

Good climbing - remember, you compete only against yourself :)

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Postby guest » Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:21 am

NO, it doesnt count at all. Often, what gives a trad climb it's grade is placing the pro, or deciding to run it out.

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Postby Marshall » Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:55 pm

Pro or lack of pro does not (or should not) affect the grade. A 20 with no pro remains a 20. Pro on a route should only affect the reputation.

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Postby Justin » Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:14 pm

I agree with Marshall... the British have a method of grading climbs based on the difficulty of placing gear / how much gear can be placed and the 'chances' of the gear holding.

The following comes from

\"BOLD ROUTES - The table below can only be used for comparing the grade of traditional routes which are reasonably well protected. A route where there is a possibility of a dangerous fall will have a much higher E grade than the actual technical difficulties on the route would merit. We have adapted this table slightly to take account of bold routes\".

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