A quick question about Aid Climbing

General climbing discussions. Climbing, Bouldering, Mountaineering. Anything!!
**Keep the arguments to the suject, not the members!
Post Reply
amelinda
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:31 am

A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by amelinda » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:57 am

Đặc tính của son bóng là nhanh trôi, lên màu hơi kém, lúc đánh lên môi có cảm giác dính nhớp. Nên trong mùa hè nóng ẩm lúc thân thể và gương mặt tiết ra mồ hôi phổ thông hơn thường ngày, bạn nên hạn chế dùng mẫu son này tránh những tình huống mất điểm như lem son hoặc làn môi mau chóng nhạt màu, thiếu sức sống . Bạn với thể chọn lựa son lì để thay thế khi vào hè.
xem thêm:https://phunxam.com/ban-co-dang-thac-ma ... bao-nhieu/
Đây đương nhiên là bước quan yếu nhất trong phần nhiều quy trình điểm trang môi. Với phần nhiều các thao tác chuẩn bị ở 1, hai, 3, bạn sẽ thấy rằng việc đánh son chính trở nên cực kỳ đơn thuần. Nhân tố quan yếu nhất là bạn không được để son chính lem ra ngoài viền môi đã tạo ở bước 3.
xem thêm:http://phunmayngocdung.com/phun-xam-moi ... hien-nhat/
Kem che thiếu sót sẽ được tái dùng, nhưng không hề ngay trên bề mặt môi mà ở vùng da quanh đó mồm. Bước này thường bị bỏ qua hoặc thậm chí là không hề được cân nhắc đến trong quy trình trang điểm môi của đông đảo những cô gái. Tuy nhiên chỉ cần kỹ lưỡng thí điểm 1 lần, bạn sẽ thấy được hiệu quả tức tốc.Nếu thực hành đúng và đủ những bước 1-5 kể trên, bạn sẽ có đôi môi đẹp không thua gì bất cứ người cái hay minh tinh điện ảnh nào. Đôi môi của "cô đào" Scarlett Johansson không phải chỉ là một "giấc mơ".
nguồn:phun môi màu hồng cam
Last edited by amelinda on Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Justin
Posts: 3746
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:31 am
Real Name: Justin Lawson
Location: Montagu
Contact:

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by Justin » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:41 am

It’s a challenge thing (to avoid dieing or hitting something below 😏

There is no easy answer! The best description that I’ve heard for aid climbing is that it is “like defusing a time bomb”.
It usually attracts a certain type of person (and then there is ‘hard rope solo aid’ 😎

I’ve done an aid route, maybe in 15 years I’ll do another 😁
Climb ZA - Administrator
justin@climbing.co.za

JanoSA
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:59 am
Location: Bloemfontein
Contact:

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by JanoSA » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:50 am

I don't aid climb, so someone that knows more is welcome to correct me on this, but in the mean time ill take a crack at answering your question based on my understanding:

It's down to style/ethics. Modern aid climbing is pretty much "clean" aid climbing. This is mostly the case in the USA. So add the word "clean" to your phrase "hard aid climbing". You don't alter the rock and you don't leave anything behind. The only exception to this might be 2-3 bolts at belay/rappel stations when natural/Traditional protection is not safe/possible/viable/feasible. This has minimal impact on the rock, nature and no impact on the grading of the route. The days of throwing up a bolt ladder are over and have been for many years. This is purely to preserve the rock and the experience for future generations.

Ethics/Style is always a black hole argument though. The above is merely my understanding of how climbers generally do it based on spending way too much time on internet forums and not climbing enough. The Ethics of any particular area are usually determined by the local community and sometimes influenced by local law in the case of nature reserve or parks.

User avatar
Nic Le Maitre
Posts: 1300
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:40 am
Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
Location: Stellenbosch

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by Nic Le Maitre » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:27 am

It comes down to fall distance.

A friend from the US, who does a lot of aid climbing, says all aid climbing is A1 until you fall... Then you find out the difference between A1 and A4. A4 will have very few places that you can place a piece that will hold a fall, whereas A1, the good protection will be relatively closely spaced.
Happy climbing
Nic

clickbutt
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:08 pm
Real Name: Louis Louw

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by clickbutt » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:01 pm

I did not understand the intrigue of aid climbing until I tried it in a short climbing course at Yosemite.
Like Trad vs Sport vs Bouldering ... it just a different way to experience climbing.

I was amazed how a novice like me was moving up a blank face which I thought would be impossible for anybody to even consider climbing!
This was a C3 climb (which I did with safety of a top-rope).

On top of that I always thought Aid would be extremely slow progress. I was sorely mistaken. If you know what you are doing you can move really quick.

I have not started aid climbing yet, but I do now understand why some people love it.

Note that I believe instead of A1 they tend to use C1 now for Clean Aid (vs hammer/bolt aid).
I now look with new eyes on what is possible or not on a face.

BAbycoat
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:53 pm

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by BAbycoat » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:01 pm

Whats the deal?
Aid climbing is a disease. Characterized by weight-loss from suffering up walls without eating/drinking/sleeping enough, and having your circle of climbing friends dwindle to only the ones who know how to belay/haul/sort gear/crap at the same time.

Ghaznavid
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:37 pm
Real Name: Ghaznavid

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by Ghaznavid » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:06 am

I think people sometimes forget the sport of origin for climbing - mountaineering.

Remember that there are reasons to climb that don't relate to that feeling you get from clipping into chains at the top of a sport crag.

Many Drakensberg climbs were opened on aid. I believe Tooth was first ascended via a piton ladder up the crux pitch - imagine trying to climb something like that before the days of climbing shoes, cams etc with 1950 gear. You can understand why it felt safer to just pull up a line of pitons.

Some positions can't be reached without either taking massive risks or aiding them. And sometimes a climber wants to get up a peak that is harder than their ability, but is happy to aid the crux so that they can at least do the route - the Nose being a classic example.

The Singati Arete route up Eastern Buttress in the Drakensberg was described as having "an embarrassingly difficult finish to the climb." - the route goes at E, D, D, D, F1, F1, D and then G1 or F3/A1 for the final pitch. Should those of us who aren't comfortable on G1 ignore this route because it has a single really hard move 200m up it? Seems to me that it is better to head up and just aid a single move than to not do the route.

As the old saying goes - if it doesn't speak to you, don't do it.
"There is something fundamentally wrong in treating the Earth as if it were a business in liquidation." Herman E Daly

Old Smelly
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:21 pm

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by Old Smelly » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:37 am

Does G1 stand for "Gaz One"?

Of course AID isn't cimbing - and the only people who think so use a letter system when a perfectly good number system exists (just joking, but really- just use the new fancy SA grade system or if you are really cool the French System?!?)...BUT let's just say for arguments sake that you thought AID was a form of climbing rather than a mechanical means of getting from A to B...then you could also understand that someone will one day climb what you ascended...and that doesn't detract from your getting to the top - if that was the desired achievement -but it also shouldn't mean that you need to argue it's validity...its just another form (like ice climbing or even mixed)

The thing to realise is that in SA we only ever resort to it when we have to... so it is not a very common practice...so not many of US are any good at it...hence the lack of real interest until the need arises
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

Ghaznavid
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:37 pm
Real Name: Ghaznavid

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by Ghaznavid » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:06 am

No one uses number grades in the Drakensberg, aside from the few sport routes in the Free State.

I don't think grades are generally comparable anyway. I lead the C pitch (pitch 3, graded E on the original RD) on Rhino S-Route recently. That is supposedly about a 6, which no doubt acquires a reasonable amount of laughter from those who have never climbed in the Drakensberg. None of the moves were particularly difficult, but there were a few proper moves, and quite a bit of walking on grass (which doesn't grip well in climbing shoes). But the pitch has gear at about 4m in and again around 45m, it is 50m long. On the top section I was about to use a hold (bear in mind that I was very lead out at this point, and have a lot of exposure on both sides), I tested the hold with my hand and snapped it off with almost no force required.

My point being that having 50m X 2 ropes pulling down on you, while climbing with a pack on, and a massive leadout on a windy day with a lot of exposure is not the same as doing a very hard move on a solid cliff with good gear. Aid climbing belongs more on the mountaineering side of the scale than the crag climbing side. I doubt anyone is aiding a route at Monteseel.

Notably very few people have free climbed the Nose. It just isn't the same sport as a standard crag climb.

The analysis of the old SA grades that I once saw was:
C - come on, too easy
D - darn easy
E - easy
F - fair
G - gnarly
H - horrible
I - impossible
J - you're joking, right?

The Drakensberg equivalent one I once saw was:
C - crazy
D - death scramble
E - eloquently pulling on grass
F - f***ing insane
G - going to kill you
"There is something fundamentally wrong in treating the Earth as if it were a business in liquidation." Herman E Daly

Old Smelly
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:21 pm

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by Old Smelly » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:38 am

Hey Gaz,

I like your analysis of Berg climbing and I respect it - just not mad about the "OLD" grading system - even the latest Berg book makes you keep checking back to see WTF is the comparable grade from the "current" SA system - which makes the whole thing cumbersome... I suspect moving with the times or putting both grades is more sensible...

At least you aren't using the French system - that seems to be reserved for the Pretentious and up and coming cool cats...

Back to the point - I suspect SA climbers should do some training as to how to do AID for emergencies - but as I said one never seems to actually PLAN to do AID unless one has to, and even then it is a last resort - it is just so much easier to actually climb something - unless as you say there seems to be no other way and even then it is just a means to an end - I do not see people lining up to do AID rather then climb something and if they were I would have to ask them why. In places like Yosemite it is a common practice but in SA I suspect it will always be a novelty or something you resort to.

Still if that is what floats your boat just please learn to do it safely!
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

Ghaznavid
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:37 pm
Real Name: Ghaznavid

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by Ghaznavid » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:23 am

Most certainly can't use the French system in the Drakensberg, most easy pitches are below the lowest grade :lol:

Definitely agree that people should know how to aid safely, because it can be your safest way out in some situations. E.g. when you are lead-out, can't do the next move and can't safely downclimb. It can also be useful for a seconder to aid a crux if they are stuck on it and time is an issue - which is what I ended up doing on both crux sequences on Rhino S-Route (supposedly F1, which is about 13, yet I recently completed an 18 indoor - hence my point that grades aren't comparable).

Prussiking up a rope is also a very important skill, especially when abseiling down a route. I remember when I started climbing - I was shown how to tie a prussik, but no one ever bothered to explain to me what it is used for. Fortunately Youtube is a thing.
"There is something fundamentally wrong in treating the Earth as if it were a business in liquidation." Herman E Daly

User avatar
Nic Le Maitre
Posts: 1300
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:40 am
Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
Location: Stellenbosch

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by Nic Le Maitre » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:30 am

You really can't compare indoor grades to outdoor grades, especially not to trad grading, since indoor routes might be as technically challenging you can see every hold and often know how good it is before you go for it. Most easier trad (under 22?) is also climbed onsight which adds to the difficulty.

I see aid as a way of opening routes that are then a challenge for the next generation. Tommy Caldwell in Yosemite (and Patagonia too these days) is probably the greatest free'er of routes with the Dawn Wall being the current high point. It's always been the standard practice to climb a route in the same style or better than the first ascentionist. Who knows when some young gym honed climber is going to get to visit the Big-M and free AdK and Ed Feb's Mediocrity?
Happy climbing
Nic

User avatar
Justin
Posts: 3746
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:31 am
Real Name: Justin Lawson
Location: Montagu
Contact:

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by Justin » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:54 pm

Nic Le Maitre wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:30 am
Who knows when some young gym honed climber is going to get to visit the Big-M and free AdK and Ed Feb's Mediocrity?
A reasonably well known local climber went up Mediocrity a while back with intent to free climb what ever could be done. His motto was "If you can hook it, you can crimp it".
No aid pitches were freed... and then he ended up aiding the only free pitch (ADK grade 24) :P
Climb ZA - Administrator
justin@climbing.co.za

Old Smelly
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:21 pm

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by Old Smelly » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:58 am

Looks like there is some space for AID classes then...
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

User avatar
Nic Le Maitre
Posts: 1300
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:40 am
Real Name: Nic Le Maitre
Location: Stellenbosch

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by Nic Le Maitre » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:45 am

Justin wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:54 pm
No aid pitches were freed... and then he ended up aiding the only free pitch (ADK grade 24) :P
Ya everybody knows AdK couldn't grade routes under about 26.
Happy climbing
Nic

Ghaznavid
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:37 pm
Real Name: Ghaznavid

Re: A quick question about Aid Climbing

Post by Ghaznavid » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:27 am

Randomly came across this story online - Pico Cão Grande, on the island of São Tomé:
https://dmmclimbing.com/Journal/June-20 ... wall-climb

Classic example of what I mean by the necessity of aid climbing on some occasions. A 5.13d/A0 spot route. Not sure if the aid is a bolt ladder or proper clean aid, but nonetheless - a 400+m high rock tower in the middle of the jungle will always be epic. Seeing as it is an African island - I'm surprised no South Africans have headed out to bag the first clean ascent before the bolts are destroyed by the jungle mist.

I saw an article online recently where they suggested that anyone struggling to up their trad grade should aid climb.The logic being that climbing is a head game, and most trad climbers don't trust their gear - and often gear is placed simply for psychological reasons. If you never fall, you won't know if your gear will hold, but if you aid, you discover pretty quickly (although not under the same force).
"There is something fundamentally wrong in treating the Earth as if it were a business in liquidation." Herman E Daly

Post Reply