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TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:23 am
by DolphinDawie
Has anybody bought an activity permit for TM yet?
TMNP Access Cards & Activity Permits

Here's the press release: TMNP launches My Activity Permit

This may be related to these posts:
Classroom Boulder Access
Potential nation wide climbing ban

I have to ask, what is rock climbing? Lion's Head regular route + chains? Solo'ing Frasers? If I don't clip the bolts at the top of Bombay duck, is it still 'rock climbing'?

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:40 am
by Franz
Didnt even know I needed one.

Guess from a legal liability point of view it makes sense for Sanparks to regulate access. Since its based on an EMP I guess it is also good for the environment. Something thats been discussed to death on the neighbourhood's forums.

Next time I'm climbing in the cape I will get a permit.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:23 am
by JohnNam
Slightly off topic, but still concerning activity permits.

Heres a solution to the mugging problem. Make it compulsory for muggers to have an activity permit, then the park rangers will look out for them to check their permits and issue the necessary fines. :jocolor: I am sure this will solve the problem :drunken:

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:24 am
by d0nK3y
More and more red tape... :? :cry:
Level 2 – Hand-gliding and paragliding, sport/rock climbing (R130)
I would love to see this seemingly new sport called "hand-gliding" sounds fun! :afro:

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:57 am
by SuperM
Getting ready for take off.......WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :afro:

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:07 am
by Justin
As much as we hate paying to visit our local mountain this was inevitable – we’ve been paying to visit Silvermine Crags for ages... they’re just including everything now.

I believe SANParks had their government funding taken away some time ago and they now need to make money from their assets.

I am however of the opinion that if we’re paying to go into the mountains then we should be safe (from muggers).
See image below from Table Mountain Watch

Edit - Added Mugging Graph for 2013
Image

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:10 am
by JonoJ
Hand-gliding. Hmmmm, so let me get this straight........

You're allowed to commit suicide by jumping off Table Mountain, but the moment you start flapping you're in trouble with the law? So, jumpers have only got one shot at getting their trajectory right.

:roll:

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:13 am
by robertbreyer
so now we have to get permits for activities, as well as cameras. the TMNP hits just keep coming.
time we took a stand on this crap. and mine is what part of no thanks don't you understand. another tax just because they can.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:38 am
by Brent
Jono said:
"Hand-gliding. Hmmmm, so let me get this straight........
You're allowed to commit suicide by jumping off Table Mountain, but the moment you start flapping you're in trouble with the law? "

Hand gliding? Is TM now a 'no-masturbation' zone too?
So, Jono's other sentence could have read: "the moment you start fapping you're in trouble with the law".

Makes sense.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:41 am
by Justin
:idea: Will tourists going up the Cable Car be required to have a permit?

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:18 pm
by GBM
Is this card not limited to certain areas of the Table Mountain National Park only? The press report refers to Cape Point, Boulders, Silvermine, Tokai and Oudekraal when referring to persons being required to pay a daily Conservation Fee or entering with their valid Wild Card or TMNP My Green Card.

Cant see the masses being precluded from heading up Lions Head or walking the contour path without a card or paying the fee - quite frankly it would probably be a good thing reduce the numbers heading up Lions Head anyway, the increase in graffiti on the rocks, litter on the side of paths and on the slopes and the muggings of tourists are sufficient cause to make the tourists pay if they want to go drink on the summit.

For the locals it should be free, we have grown up with the Mountain in our backyard and exercise our right to freedom of religious activity (climbing is a religion) on its slopes.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:55 pm
by DolphinDawie
As far as I can tell, we'll be charged twice to climb in certain areas (i.e. Silvermine). You'll pay for entry, and again for your activity card.

I think for the rest of the TMNP, the implication is that when you climb you should have the card.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:51 pm
by Brent
The important mindset to hold, when considering SANParks and their motives, is that they are a business, not a conservation body.

I've long harboured the (as yet, unrealised, fortunately) fear that the ultimate goal of the TMNP is to have the entire mountain fenced. That way they can start to seriously gather revenue from all visitors. It's already working in Cape Point.

Forget separate rates for locals.

It may be one of the reasons there is a reluctance to tackle crime seriously at this stage: it's additional motivation for fencing the park. Mostly though, their denialism re crime is so as not to deter visitors. It will be a desperately sad day indeed when our mountain becomes fenced.

Regarding the user group charges, this has been in operation for a while. Note that MCSA members do not need to pay that additional amount on top of their wild card. We worked hard to get that concession out of Brett Myrdal when he was still head of TMNP. Yes, there is an EMP, but it's for sport climbing. There is currently one being worked on for bouldering, as well as serious negotiations to regain access for RedHill bouldering area. We're also working on a bolting policy, which has obviously been (extensively) discussed elsewhere in the forum.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:48 pm
by uGo
I stand to be corrected, but i think this activities thing is not new. A few years ago when I was looking into getting a WildCard there was already something in place for this. At the time I was wondering how everybody got round this, and then realised nobody goes to Silvermine to climb, you just accidentally have all your climbing gear with you, and then i figured out that nobody really knows about the activity thing. I think back then it was set up to be different levels of the WildCard, but I am not sure.

The concept that it costs money to maintain paths is perfectly normal. If some path are specifically there for climbing, or if what you do there has a greater impact on the environment (cycling, horseriding), then it makes sense to have a system to support that. If one form of funding collapses (I have no idea if this happened, I am just saying if), then you have to find another way of doing this, or lose the facility.

I have not seen anything which refers to the need for an activity card outside the paying areas, so before we get up in arms about this, let's make sure.

Lastly, I am in full support of Justin's comment regarding safety. At silvermine (a paying venue) I have never felt my safety threatened, and although I am sure people have had stuff stolen out of cars, I reckon this is not a hot-spot. Table mountain is not a paying venue, and they will have to up their game considerably if they were to even think of charging here.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:57 pm
by JasonCollins
As far as i'm aware, this has been in place since 2004. One needs a permit for all activities in the park, from climbing on TM to mountain biking in Deer Park to walking a dog on the pipe track.

Once you have an activities permit, you don't need to pay again to go climbing at Silvermine or to mountain bike at Tokai as these are designated areas. Because there is no climbing in say Cape Point, it wont get you in here for free and you'll have to cough up.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:17 pm
by uGo
JasonCollins wrote: Once you have an activities permit, you don't need to pay again to go climbing at Silvermine or to mountain bike at Tokai as these are designated areas.
Nope, it currently clearly says that you need a WildCard as well
Holders of an Activity Permit card will still be required to pay the entrance fee/be in possession of a ‘My Green Card or National Wild Card when accessing TMNP pay points (The Cape of Good Hope (Cape Point), Boulders Penguin Colony, Oudekraal, Silvermine and Tokai).

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:44 pm
by JasonCollins
Correct! Old system wild card was all inclusive, the new system you need the green/wild card plus the permit.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:37 pm
by Alex69
Not to be a boob,

But I got a wild card so do I need an activity card as well?

Al

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:21 pm
by GBM
I think the following publication on the SANPARK website is conclusive enough for me to accept that climbing on Table Mountain & Lion's Head does not require plastic accreditation :

"A unique feature of the TMNP is that it is primarily an open access Park with only three points where conservation fees are payable, Cape of Good Hope, Boulders and Silvermine, the rest of the Park is open access and free for all to enjoy."

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:49 am
by Chris F
So they only charge in the 3 places where they can actually police and restict access.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:58 am
by chowell
Does anyone know if day activity permits are available? I have made phone calls to several TMNP offices and visited the Tokai office. Nobody was able to give me an answer.

Mr Botes at the Tokai office said that he din't understand the TMNP processes because they had only been with TMNP for 6 years.

It seems ridiculous that someone who is visiting Cape Town for a weekend should have to buy an annual permit.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:36 pm
by danglingdingle
chowell wrote:
Mr Botes at the Tokai office said that he din't understand the TMNP processes because they had only been with TMNP for 6 years.


ja, its ridiculous to think that someone could pick up on a permit aplication process in this small time frame :roll:

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:01 pm
by Justin
chowell wrote:said that he din't understand the TMNP processes because they had only been with TMNP for 6 years.
F*%$ me ! :shock:

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:55 pm
by chowell
Yes, he actually said that.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:27 pm
by gollum
SCREW them and their activity permits (or whatever it's called).

They won't see a CENT from me until they don't
A) ADMIT that they have a HUGE problem with crime on the land they're supposed to manage.
B) DO something about said problem.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:48 pm
by Stu
So just to confirm.
To boulder anywhere around the peninsula (for a period of 1 year) all you need to do is buy the Level 2 Activity Permit at R225?

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:58 pm
by mokganjetsi
disclaimer: follow my advice at your own risk :mrgreen:
i climb often on lion's head and table mountain; i have seen rangers from time to time (the last few weeks) and never have i been asked for a permit. i would not buy one if i was an out-of-town visiting climber.

TMNP need to:
signpost access routes to the crags with the requirement to have a climbing permit
ensure it is common knowledge where to procure one
at a reasonable price
+ gollum's comments

until such time i'll pay at manned entrances (such as silvermine) but not at TM or lion's head. let's see how this goes.....

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:07 pm
by Marshall1
.

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:02 pm
by Stu
How does this impact on the Redhill bouldering areas?

Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:59 pm
by Andy Davies
In my opinion SANP is an organisation struggling to survive off a diminished budget from national government. Accordingly they are concentrating on gathering as much easy money as possible (low hanging fruit) and restricting activities that require effort (=cost) and that will not cause a public outcry. Ed Feb told me they tried to ban walking on "non-regulated" paths on TM when they first took over but the MCSA threatened them with court action so they backed off (reason is: public outcry).
They are also targeting communities that would normally be law abiding. They don't seem to be doing much to address the many groups of bergies & religous zealots at The Hole and Kalkbay. However they want us to compile EMPs for every activity that clearly has no impact on the environment. But it blows my mind when I go to the ledge and see all the sh1t thats fallen off the cable station (chairs, umbrellas etc)

I am quite dissapointed with the Redhill affair and think its time for climbers to be a little less acquiescent. Maybe the MCSA should hold a bouldering meet at Redhill - that will bring things to a head :bom:

Personally I think it would be lekker if we booted SANP off our mountain and let the city manage it - we after all the most importnat stakeholders.