Climb Silvermine after Fires?

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Andy
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Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Andy » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:02 pm

Yo

Is Silvermine open for climbing after the fires and are the bolts good, and rock safe?

Shot!
if your not living on the Edge...
... YOUR TAKING UP TOO MUCH SPACE!

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Thermophage
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Thermophage » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:58 am

Bolts and rock will be fine, but Cape Nature won't let you on the property...

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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Nic Le Maitre » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:53 am

It's SANParks not Cape Nature.

And what happened to pull testing the bolts? Has the subcom decided it's not needed?
Happy climbing
Nic

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Thermophage
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Thermophage » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:31 am

SANParks/Cape Nature. Doesn't matter.
Dunno if the SubCom has decided, but I don't think it is in any way necessary. It is only the very start of Silvermine Lower which had any significant vegetation near the base of the wall.
Kalk Bay was fine the other day, Lakeside is fine, The Mine is fine, etc.
Nobody can get into Silvermine atm anyway, so if/when we can one can look and make the call, but pre-empting I reckon is a waste given how unaffected the other crags seem to be.

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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Nic Le Maitre » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:02 pm

It does matter, they are fundamentally different bodies with different mandates, areas of concern etc and more importantly one has nothing to do with the TM chain and the other does.

Also you stated on the fire thread that: (apologies for quoting from other threads, but I can't merge them)
http://www.climbing.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=12749&p=60884&hilit=fire#p60928

Thermophage wrote:Yo peeps,

I'll bring it up at our MCSA Rock Sub Committee meeting on Wednesday evening.
Bunch of the people have contact with TMNP and we'll chat about getting in touch.

Cheers,
Cuan


So I guess you didn't then?

For what it's worth, a VWS member said that during their firefighting efforts in the area below the Silvermine crags they regularly had to dodge huge boulders falling down the slope, so maybe the crag isn't in such great condition?

My offer stands to arrange the pull testing if the SubCom can sort out access as you offered
Happy climbing
Nic

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robertbreyer
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby robertbreyer » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:28 pm

CLOSED:
All Silvermine Crags.
Lakeside Pinnacle.

I believe the Mine and the Hole are officially closed, but unofficially climbable. Can anyone confirm this?

WIDE OPEN:
Skorsteenskop.
http://www.climbing.co.za/2014/03/skoor ... s-details/
Still a great crag if you want a 20 minute cardio warm-up.

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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Nic Le Maitre » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:32 pm

The Mine totally climbable. Dunno about the Hole
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Nic

Willem
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Willem » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:31 pm

Went to the Hole a couple of weeks ago. The main crag is unaffected and the vegetation at its base untouched, but the fire burnt right up to the crags further left. There is no obvious damage to either bolts or rock.

Andy
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Andy » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:13 pm

Yo Willem. How are the routes at the Side Line, next to the Hole? Is it still nice to climb there?

Thanks
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Turtle
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Turtle » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:46 pm

Anyone know if Red Hill is open?

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Thermophage
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Thermophage » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:42 am

I brought it up. Still in discussion.
As far as I'm aware, even the Mine is technically off limits. Some people I know were given issues by rangers.
As for Red Hill, don't know, but I'm sure people have been going anyway.

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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Nic Le Maitre » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:38 am

Thermophage wrote:I brought it up. Still in discussion.


Thanks.
Happy climbing
Nic

CapeTownClimber
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby CapeTownClimber » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:22 am

All of Silvermine is closed. This includes Tokai forest, Silvermine east (between Boyes drive and Ou Kaapse) and Silvermine west (between Ou Kaapse and Chapmans). This means no climbing at:

Kalk Bay
The Hole
Foreign Policy
Muizenberg Crag
Topside bouldering
The Mine
Lakeside Pinnacle
The Underside
Silvermine crags
(not sure about Peers cave)

I have been involved at various meeting with various SANParks in my professional capacity and have learned the following:

The approximate timeline for reopening the area is:
Silvermine east - September
Silvermine west - December
Tokai - 12- 24 months

The reasons for closing the areas are not ecological, as they might like you to believe. If you remain on the paths - as you ought to even before the fire - your impact is unlikely to differ for your impact on the prefire landscape. For bouldering this might not be the case because of the extensive paths required for accessing boulders. Otherwise many of the major paths in Silvermine are stone or gravel, thus trampling is irrelevant. FYI CapeNature reopened Jonkershoek a week after the fire there.

SANParks have closed these areas because their lawyers advised them to. This might make sense in Tokai where falling trees and felling by CapePine is a real danger, and parts of Silvermine West where infrastucture (e.g. Boardwalks) has been damaged, or at crags that have been impacted by fire. But for much of Silvermine east - where paths are stone and gravel - the post-fire landscape poses no new danger when compared to pre-fire conditions (These are words uttered by high-level TMNP employees themselves). They themselves cant really explain the closure other than "the lawyers told us to".

Closing the area as they have perpetuates the idea that fires are a disaster rather than a natural occurrence. I would encourage people to go for hikes in Silvermine east and appreciate the beauty of the post-fire environment and engage with it. Saying this you do face a massive fine if caught (cant remember exactly but somewhere between R2000 and R5000). I will continue to climb, hike, run and botanize up there as a matter of principle and if approached by a ranger if will politely explain my case....and then run away :)
Last edited by CapeTownClimber on Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mokganjetsi
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby mokganjetsi » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:05 am

i'm not sure how one will be fined - they don't even know who you are. good luck to them with that.
but climbers ignoring the park's rules might jeopardise future climbing development & access.....
time to get into trad okes :thumright

ps: and make good use of montagu, rocklands & hellfire this winter

CapeTownClimber
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby CapeTownClimber » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:16 am

True,
Although one might disagree with their rules and approach, one would not want to jeopardise future access.

I highly doubt that disregarding their rules re hiking will jeopardise future access. So perhaps I will vent my disapproval and frustration that way.

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XMod
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby XMod » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:15 pm

I recently wrote in another thread that pull testing was necessary - this was on advice received from the adhesive suppliers. Obviously it is only required if there are fire scorched/heated patches or burnt looking glue around the bolts. An inspection is the obvious first step to determine what action is required if any. With the crags being ALL still closed for the foreseeable future its a moot point at present.

I would encourage people (publicly) to abide by TMNP's closure as you risk placing all climbers in a bad light with the authorities by ignoring it. Privately Im also hanging to get back on the rock! :wink:

The crags (especially Silvermine) will definitely be in a dangerous condition after the fires as many rocks will be loose. We had to trundle several large rocks :shock: after the last fires and re-position others in order to make the crags safe. Far better to let nature sort herself out with time and the passage of winter and go in when the park re-opens access. If you do sneak in be careful - and DONT get caught!

Willem
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Willem » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:12 pm

@Andy - The Sideline looked fine to climb on, but is sandy and hot (at least while the sun shines on the crag) because of the lack of vegetation.

valconcorner
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Re: Climb Pinnacle ?

Postby valconcorner » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:06 pm

Climbers are seen regularly on Pinnacle ...... is parks board not policing the area or has the ban been lifted

wesleywt
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby wesleywt » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:39 am

It might be newbies who don't know they shouldn't be there.

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Turtle
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Turtle » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:42 pm

They literally have to climb over a newly erected fence with a sign post on it saying no entry. I have seen them from afar too, many times. The sign says no entrance without the ''proper authorization'', can one get special authorization for Lakeside Pinnacle? :scratch:

mokganjetsi
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby mokganjetsi » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:58 am

Turtle wrote:They literally have to climb over a newly erected fence with a sign post on it saying no entry.


okay so there's a bunch of noobs jeopardising access & relations for all of us. *facepalm*. lakeside is consigned to my collection of "a brief history of crummy crags" so i probably will not be up there anytime soon. but do confront if you see guys coming down from there. the selfishness of some people boggles my mind.

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robertbreyer
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby robertbreyer » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:57 am

Seems to me that TMNP management have made a blanket decision to close all sport climbing areas, no matter what the individual story is. Fire or no fire. A few days ago climbers were kicked out of Higgovale quarry again.

The TMNP folks are currently revising their Draft Park Management Plan.

Time for us to be heard!

The PMP is available electronically on the SANParks website at the following link:
http://www.sanparks.co.za/conservation/ ... _plans.php

You can make comments and provide feedback here:
http://www.sanparks.org/conservation/pa ... g_form.php

or email: andre.spies@sanparks.org

It's a bit onerous but we must all tell them what we think of OUR park that they are managing for US!

Closing date is 9 May!
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Richard
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Richard » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:41 am

Glad to hear that there are some mildly dissenting voices to this blanket ban.

To quote a respected fynbos expert: "Unfortunately SANParks seem to have used the fire as an opportunity to let their suppressed misanthropy emerge. They are very keen to keep people out although there is no evidence that hikers will cause damage to recovering fynbos, and they're losing an opportunity for various educational and public relations activities."

I haven't been to Lakeside in many years but my regular commutes past reveal no burning up to the crag. Why the barbed wire barrier?

Silvermine to Waterfall? Jeep tracks and paths in good condition. Why the closure?

I can understand that the MTB trails in Tokai, and the Silvermine Crags, are exposed to falling trees, but the rest....?

Funny how a normally quite reactionary group, that regularly challenges unreasonable restrictions, is just sitting back happy with a 6 month to 2 year closure possible.

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Justin
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Justin » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:59 am

I have not had time to go through the Table Mountain Draft Management Plan - I did however search for the term 'climbing' which comes up twice.

They read:

Page 18:
"Recreational users currently engage in activities on a regular basis such as walking, hiking, walkers accompanied by dogs, mountain-biking, trail running, horse-riding, mountain climbing, etc. Due to this large number of users (more than 1.5 million) there is significant investment required for developing and maintaining footpaths, access points, parking areas and infrastructure. "

Page 41:
"Areas demarcated as Remote Core zone include: the greater portion of the Cape of Good Hope section; the Swartkopberg; Grootkop to Vlooiberg and parts of Karbonkelberg, Orangekloof and Devils Peak. Within these areas only activities which do not detract from the remoteness of the environment should be allowed such as hiking, nature-observation and traditional rock climbing."

To anyone in the know: What do SANParks actually want to change in this Draft Document?

If an objection is to be made, perhaps the MCSA would (better) represent climbers/mountain users as a whole?

The map + key below seemingly show why they haven't fenced off the road up to The Mine.
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Richard
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Richard » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:28 am

As far as I know the MCSA is following this. I think too that SANParks are acquiring additional land around the edges and this may, or may not, affect access. I do expect a tightening up on Activity Cards etc as they try to squeeze as much "tax" as possible out of the "wealthy, privileged Park users".
What astounded me recently was the email I received informing me that I must renew my Activity Card now. Just days after they effectively closed off the entire area we climb and cycle in???

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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby mokganjetsi » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:45 am

i support dissent against any unreasonable measures introduced by TMNP, such as the rule that you must have an activity permit in order to climb trad on the TM range (which is of course not doable for visitors).

Lakeside is a different kettle of fish imho; its very visible and recently fenced-off + sign posted - so the message climbers send is one of blanket dissent against any measure TMNP tries to implement.

there is no signage or fencing at the Mine so my personal stance on that is one could venture out there at your own risk.

overall i'm generally disappointed in TMNP's management of the climbing community's interest and i agree that we should not sit back and be bullied.

Richard
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Richard » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:05 pm

It's not just climbers. It's all walkers, trail runners, cyclists and general nature lovers. Complete over the top blanket ban. Apparently on advice from their lawyers.

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Justin
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Justin » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:54 am

Richard wrote:It's not just climbers. It's all walkers, trail runners, cyclists and general nature lovers.


Yup, all mountain users.



I just got off the phone with SANParks.
They tell me that everything from Peers Cave through to Tokai is closed. Tokai is closed primarily due to reasons of crime.
The rest, they are still investigating and will have to rebuild paths, etc. They hope to have the general area open before the end of the year.
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Thermophage
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Thermophage » Mon May 04, 2015 8:58 pm

so, came across this...not sure if anyone else had already posted it :)


Warren G
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Re: Climb Silvermine after Fires?

Postby Warren G » Tue May 05, 2015 1:14 pm

After seeing this video I am no longer concerned about fire damage: did the fire reach that intensity 25m up a wall?
Sandbagging is a dirty game


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